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Friendly reminder to everyone irritated by the above rhetoric:
If you are in a country that suspended its support of the UN organization UNRWA, you can still donate to them directly at https://donate.unrwa.org/
You can also donate directly to Hamas and bypass the middleman there. Some pretty great footage came out yesterday showing Hamas fully armed wearing regalia coming into UN vehicles. Right outside the Rafa gate.
The guiding idea behind "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" is that it's better to let a guilty person go free than it is to unjustly punish an innocent person.
It's depressing how quickly some of you have abandoned that basic principle.
Instead you are happy to punish the innocent civilians of Gaza, half of whom are children, even to the point of literally starving them to death.
This isn't a court of law. This is a war, a war that was started by Hamas. Hamas who uses women and children as human Shields.
Not to mention that the propaganda claiming how many women and children have been killed has now been revised to half the original number.
No one is happy with what's happening here. What would make me happy is for the hostages to be released and for Hamas to stop terrorizing the Palestinian people.
this war was started by Israel in 1976 in the 7 day war.
Pretty sure it started in 48 when five Arab Nations attacked the fledgling nation of Israel..... They lost them, preventing them from developing their pan arabian caliphate and they simply have not gotten over it since.
The simple fact that Israel exists and Jews control their own destiny completely surrounded by islamists and those who openly call for their death is something that they're just unwilling to accept.
What would make me happy would be for the hostilities to cease, the civilians to all be safe and properly fed and housed (no matter what their race or religion), and for the belligerants to find themselves looking down the barrel of a war crimes tribunal.
So I think there's stuff you and I do have in common, we just have very different expectations around international law and the rules of war. I find your opinions on war crimes quite horrible but I appreciate our underlying common humanity.
I feel like you are very likely from a western society. And what I've noticed since this conflict has broken openly, is there is a serious disconnect between those of us who are rooted in the middle East and those who are not.
When you live next to someone who has spent over 1,000 years trying to exterminate you and you now have a safe harbor that you can defend yourself from, then you meet fire with fire. Israel is quite clearly taking more steps than any Nation has ever taken in an urban combat situation to avoid civilian casualties. They're not Lily white in this. Nobody fighting a war could possibly be, but to try and claim that they're even close to being on the level of the people who tore babies out of their cribs and slaughtered them completely misrepresents the reality on the ground.
The white Western Savior along the lines of what Martin Luther King identified 50 years ago doesn't have a fucking clue what they're looking at or talking about when it comes to the theater of war that we are witnessing in the middle East. You can't humanely fight against the monsters that comprise hamas. As sad as that is for humans to have to accept in order to save their own lives.
No, the West are way more understanding of this genocide than most non-Western countries.
The two biggest legal challenges have come from South Africa and Nicaragua.
The African Union as a whole is pretty opposed to it and thus the African continent could be a source of peacekeepers if the US ever stops blocking the UN.
Meanwhile the US role has been such that there's talk of this eroding US soft power outside the West, particularly in ASEAN countries.
That's absolutely untrue. The West the West has gone out of its way to redefine what a genocide is. Even saying that that's required in a parliament host in Europe.
The challenges are coming from countries that are aligned with Russia and Iran. That's so blatantly obvious. The fact that you didn't include it in your statement really makes your intentions questionable here. Meanwhile, we have the former president of the icj, the lady who literally penned the decision saying that they didn't rule. It was plausibly a genocide and that all the stupid people out there claiming it's a genocide. Not only don't understand the ruling but they don't understand the topic. Seems like you're part of that crowd.
Oooohkay.
I studied genocides at university and I damn well know what one is when I see one. I also studied Apartheid so I know exactly why South Africa brought its case. And I have a longstanding interest in human rights law.
You're being really offensive now.
If we're up to you "questioning" my "intentions" here, lets quit while we're ahead, there's absolutely no value in a discussion where you accuse me of being a Russian troll and in turn I accuse you of being a Hasbara shill. I entered this conversation in good faith but it's pointless now.
Thank you for the discussion, have a nice weekend, goodbye.
So you know more than the icj? If there was a genocide ongoing, why didn't they put a stop to the hostilities? Why did the president of the icj come out and explicitly clear the record that their judgment was not that there is a plausible genocide happening right now? If you study genocide as you claim, why would the icj allow one to continue if one in fact was happening? They intervene in Russia, Ukraine. They didn't intervene in Israel.