this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2024
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At some time we have to deal with this.
Keep in mind that we like Lemmy for being a federated platform.
I don't think there is enough awareness at this point. And the way we do it here, it has to come from the community. The people and mods have to become aware and make a decision to move their participation and the communities to another instance. I don't see a way around that. This will take some time, patience and effort.
I've started to do my part and unsubscribed from [email protected] I'm now going through my list of subscriptions and find alternatives to other communities, so I don't contribute to the lemmy.ml communities being the larges ones any more.
[Edit: Wow. I've replaced 32 communities, some with substantially better alternatives, and I've found a few nice additional ones in the process. I still need recommendations for alternatives to: "Peertube", "Libre Culture", "Crawling the IndieWeb", "datahoarder", "Linux Phones", "postmarketOS", "osu!". I'm glad I did this. I think this is the way to make a change as a simple user. And now I'm not part of the problem anymore. It took me the better part of an hour, though.]
I'm just blocking the entire lemmy.ml instance. I've seen consistent problems from them, and nothing worth staying connected with.
Wish I could help you find alternative communities but I'm not sure about the ones you mentioned. They'll grow over time if Lemmy survives.
Thx. I found the most important communities to me. I'm glad most of them have an alternative and those are going strong. I can live with losing a few minor ones.
Concerning "blocking them": I'm not sure. I was a strong opponent to the whole defederation and "safe-space" thing last year. Where especially beehaw.org decided to do their own thing and rigorously defederate, often preemptively and without talking to people. I think such behaviour splits the community and disconnects people. I really don't like all the drama, falling out with each other and particularism. And I think all the feud is a sure way to kill the platform before it even took off with the general public... Honestly, I'm slowly changing my mind. Give me some more time.
I agree with your general point but
They aren't people like you and I. They're paid shills at best and KremlinGPT at worst. I think to survive and flourish as a platform Lemmy will have to aggressively fight back against authoritarian disinformation. As it stands, I won't even admit to anyone that I use it because it so full of propaganda.
Oh shit i get paid?
I think saying that any group of humans “aren’t people” isn’t being respectful of others. Please stop.
Intentionally misunderstanding what I said at best, defending propaganda from genocidal authoritarians at worst.
I don’t care about the content of what you are talking about. The community rules say to be respectful of others. And you aren’t. I asked you to stop but you want to argue.
I don't think shills are people on here in the same way genuine users are, I stand by that. They're representing authoritarian governments, not themselves.
If you want people to be respectful of others, how about addressing shills who are defending the Kremlin's genocide in Ukraine? It would be respectful to Ukrainians to acknowledge all of their suffering and close the door on propaganda from their oppressors.
Implying that those who disagree with you are subhuman is right out of the fascism playbook and it's definitely not being respectful of others. You can hold that opinion and you can even broadcast it widely on the internet. The rules in this community says to be respectful of others and that by it's very definition is not. I'm not interested in arguing further, and I'm definitely not interesting in talking geopolitics with you. I want you to be respectful of others and if you can't, I'll remove the content and ban you from the community. If others are not being respectful, report them and I'll review that too.
I'm not saying that and you know it. Why use a straw man argument instead of addressing what I said?
It is a bit more nuanced than that. There are normal people there, too. It's been one of the largest instances when the Reddit exodus happened. Some of the users chose the largest and the 'official' instance. And some of them are still there.
But lemmy.ml is operated by the same people who also run lemmygrad, some moderators seem to be the same. And unfortunately the whole Lemmy software platform is developed by "those" people.
I don't mind leaning a good amount to the left. I think a few socialist values would advance society and economy. Especially in places like the USA. And I've been called a communist for that. But being a tankie is beyond my comprehension. Why would anyone like Putin, defend the CCP and what they do to people. And I'm not overly bothered with the left vs right. It's the constant yelling, being super argumentative, doing brigading and spreading misinformation.
I think things are changing. I'm paying attention now to the usernames in the comments. And lemmy.ml isn't the dominating place anymore. Most of the usernames I see come from a broad range of instances. And that's a good thing. It's still a home to some big communities which needs to change, too. And I'm also waiting for a new software to come along, written by different people with a different motivation and agenda. In my opinion that's one of the next steps to emancipate ourselves. I mean if you don't like lemmy.ml you probably don't like the people making the decisions there. Which unfortunately are the same people who also write all of the Lemmy software. And their software development decisions reflect the same attitude. But also that's going to change. A few people are working on good alternatives which strive to listen to the community, invite people to participate and also finally implement proper moderation tools and a few other tweaks to foster good behaviour.
I like Lemmy. But this platform had a hard time from the start. And it's still struggling. Mixing technological difficulties and innate problems of growing a community with drama, bad decisions, waywardness and friction within the community on many different levels is just stupid and unnecessary. But I'm still waiting for progress and a bright future. I think Federation is one of the best approaches with some potential to make that happen.
I think the solid technological basis is what I'm a bit more concerned as of now. But apart from that I agree that it is us, the community who sets the tone and we decide who we want to listen to, nice people or people with behaviour disorders and an attitude. And it's a vicious circle. At some point a platform has an image and is bound to tip and attract more like-minded people and less normal ones. And the dynamics are there and we need to actively fight for a nice place.
Well said, I agree with all of that. I'm considerably more to the left as well, that's part of why I hate lemmy.ml, because they're preventing actual good growth and movement in that direction.
Hopefully Mbin or some other one of the new forks/platforms takes off soon. I'm ready to move if necessary, I love the idea of a healthy Fediverse and I hope some day I can recommend it to friends instead of being too embarrassed to admit I use it because of all the propaganda.
Sure. I personally am waiting for PieFed to come along. They seem to know what's important to address and also have some good ideas how to tackle it.
I'm 100% ready to support that and focus my engagement there. I'm pretty sure just changing the software codebase isn't changing too much... But I'd like some more independence from the few people currently doing everything.
And that's also what I've done. I haven't recommended Lemmy to friends and family, yet. And I've refrained from running my own instance, too. Despite having the server ready for that.
Thanks I'll keep an eye on it. Sad to be eager to abandon ship already, but it's not surprising that the fediverse will have some growing pains. The core value and promise of healthy social media is still there and I love it.
I mean the great thing about this architecture is, we don't need to abandon ship. I'm deliberately waiting for something that will be compatible with it. And it'll be the same community. Just a different software with a few much needed things on top.
And I'm kind of passionate about it in the first place, because I like this place. And we have to pay attention not to fall out with each other about details. Sometimes it's just not easy.
Ah thanks for explaining. It would be fantastic to export settings and connect to current communities instead of starting from scratch
That's something I've recently realized. They think people dislike them because they're leftist, but that has very little to do with it. Some of their harshest critics are from the left.
They have no idea it's because of their authoritarian simping, and every time you call them out on it, they deflect. Frankly they more strongly support fascist regimes than their criticizers.
I think the paid shills know what's going on, they're told to act like leftists and probably don't actually hold those beliefs. They might be brainwashed to think the CCP/Kremlin is good.
So in my opinion they pretend people are "upset that they're leftist" in order to avoid people focusing on their actual motives.
you can leave literally any time. there are dozens of instances, you don't need to stay on flagship instances. you might like truth.social, which runs mastodon's software, or gab.com which does the same.
Thank you very much, you can leave too.
i'm not the one whining about the user base
"Everyone I disagree with is a shill and all ideas I disagree with are propaganda"
Mocking me instead of responding to what I said is a good indicator you have no reasonable response.
It's a good indicator that what you said was worthy of mockery. Mockery is a reasonable response for someone who thinks everyone you disagree with is a shill and that all ideas that you disagree with are propaganda.
all media is propaganda.
Well, they're a bit over the top and oversimplifying things in my opinion. But you're also not contributing anything of value. You could instead add your perspective if it's different. I mean I'd probably read it and it'd get us ...anywhere?...
I'm pointing out that they're dismissing all opposing views as propaganda from shills, which itself is not contributing anything or in fact contributing negative value because it reduces discussions down to "my opinion is the one real truth and anyone who disagrees is a shill". Pointing this out is my contribution, but for some reason this needs to be argued to the point of meaninglessness.
No I'm not, and you know it.