this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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This is the definition I am using:

a system, organization, or society in which people are chosen and moved into positions of success, power, and influence on the basis of their demonstrated abilities and merit.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

As a general rule, yes. People who are able to better perform a task should be preferentially allocated towards those tasks. That being said, I think this should be a guiding rule, not a law upon which a society is built.

For one, there should be some accounting for personal preference. No one should be forced to do something by society just because they're adept at something. I think there is also space within the acceptable performance level of a society for initiatives to relax a meritocracy to some degree to help account for/make up for socioeconomic influences and historical/ongoing systemic discrimination. Meritocracy's also have to make sure they avoid the application of standardized evaluations at a young age completely determining an individual's future career prospects. Lastly, and I think this is one of common meritocracy retorhic's biggest flaws, a person's intrinsic value and overall value to society is not determined by their contributions to STEM fields and finance, which is where I think a lot of people who advocate for a more meritocracy-based society stand.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

a person's intrinsic value and overall value to society is not determined by their contributions to STEM fields and finance

I don't think anyone who views contributions in STEM fields as the most valuable to society has any respect for finance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

All of my encounters with individuals who feel liberal arts are useless and STEM is the way seem to, at their core, feel that way because of earning potential, and I've never heard one of them bash Econ/finance/investment as a career path. But πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

All of my encounters with individuals who feel liberal arts are useless and STEM is the way seem to, at their core, feel that way because of earning potential

You were saying a group of people believe that value as a person is determined by their contributions to STEM fields and finance.

Now you're saying that this group of people believe that value as a person is determined by earnings potential. Those are not the same things.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

which is where I think a lot of people who advocate for a more meritocracy-based society stand.

Why do you think this is?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

If I was guessing, in general, I think people who advocate for a pure meritocracy in the USA feel the world should be evaluated in more black and white, objective terms. The financial impact and analytic nature of STEM and finance make it much easier to stratify practitioners "objectively" in comparison to finding, for instance, the "best" photographer. I think there is also a subset of US culture that thinks that STEM is the only "real" academic group of fields worth pursuing, and knowledge in liberal arts is pointless -> not contributing to society -> not a meaningful part of the meritocracy. But I'm no expert.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I think there is also a subset of US culture that thinks that STEM is the only β€œreal” academic group of fields worth pursuing, and knowledge in liberal arts is pointless -> not contributing to society -> not a meaningful part of the meritocracy.

Yeah I agree with this quite a bit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I don't think the idea of meritocracy only lives in the U.S.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I didn't say it did, but I am a citizen of the USA and the vast majority of my cultural experience and knowledge, and therefore what I can intelligently comment on, are centered on the US.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Just to make it clear the definition that I used does not talk about choosing people for tasks they are suited for, but rather putting them in positions of power, success, and influence.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well you need to clarify further then. Are you saying we should make the best scientist the president, or the person with the most aptitude for politics and rule to be president? I don't see how this is functionally different than what I said.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well the way I interpret it is that people who demonstrate their ability are put into a position where they are rewarded more relative to their peers and/or have control over what their peers do.

So for example if I was a engineer and based on some metric was considered highly valuable then I would be paid more than other engineers and I would be put into a position where I can give other engineers directions on what needs to be done.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Then no, I don't agree with this specific implementation of the system, at least the second half. I do think more productive/effective workers should be compensated more. But being a good engineer does not make you a good manager, and the issues associated with promoting an excelling worker into management (a job requiring a substantially different skill set) are so common there's a name for their inevitable failure, The Peter Principle