I said I'd make a musical RPG video game, and spent the last six years as a solo Dev for it. It's now coming to steam at the end of this year.
Next I want to write a musical set in New Zealand about the Maori Land Wars. I have two Maori brothers who were embarrassed of their skin colour (rural NZ is pretty racist). I want to show how formidable and powerful a people the Maori were/are, in a style akin to Les Mis.
You're right. If farm animals were sedated before being killed, it would certainly be preferable, but wouldn't make it right.
We have no right to cause pain, fear or death to sentient beings, purely for ~15 minutes or pleasure. Doing so is immoral. There is no valid argument against this. Trust me, I did NOT want to be a vegan. I argued against it for four years trying not to become one. But there was and is no argument against it. Eating meat is immoral, bad for the planet, bad for the animals, bad for modern medicine, and in a typical western diet, bad for your health.
I repeat, there is no argument against veganism, and being vegan is objectively he correct moral choice.
Sentience means "the capacity to have feelings", and it is widely understood by the scientific community that the vast majority of the animal kingdom has sentience.
Do you believe cows can experience pain? Because we're right up close against rejecting scientific consensus just to justify immoral actions. And that typically is frowned upon historically.
Subjecting something that feels pain to experience pain for your pleasure is immoral.
Okay, I believe it is morally reprehensible to kill a sentient being - one that feels fear and does not want to die, solely for pleasure. Eating meat is immoral and in a just world, would be punishable.
Right, so the only thing stopping you from factory farming and consuming humans is risk of prion disease and taste? By which it could be understood that if those two issues were solved - no risk of disease, and the flavour enhanced, you would happily factory farm humans.
And vegans are the weird ones? Your priorities are cooked buddy.
That would be response to stimuli, which doesn't indicate sentience. Interesting though.
So... If there were no risk of disease, you would consider cannibalism and "normal meat eating" to be basically equitable, and equally justifiable? If not, why not?
Sorry I'm just having a hard time getting some solid admissions here, nobody wants to just straight up answer.
Well, it doesn't cause prion diseases, it just spreads them. It's only transmissible by consumption of conspecifics (or often, as in mad cow disease, by eating similar species - when farmers were feeding cows dead chickens and cows).
So you're saying the only thing stopping you from eating factory farmed human meat is the risk to your own safety?
Oh we're talking about eating humans now, we're well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.
Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won't eat it. It's unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I'm more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not
It sounds like you're okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?
Right, but what's inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn't be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren't, I'm wanting to know why those others aren't.
Ignoring "societal norms", as they've been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?
Cows are forcibly impregnated in perpetuity by humans, separated from their children and then had their milk taken so we can drink it. As soon as the cow can longer be impregnated and becomes unprofitable, it is killed for meat.
If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow for fun, it is sexual animal abuse. If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow, hoping to later kill and eat it's flesh, it's lunch.
I think a comparison is valid. Just because you are a willing participant and enabler in this animal sexual exploitation does not invalidate or soften the facts.
Okay, if you and I were sitting on a park bench together, and we saw a dog walk past, and I went off to go stomp the dog to death - would you think that was morally wrong of me? Would you try stop me?