carl_marks_1312

Happy Birthday 🎂🎈

I wonder why and how that "outside Russian aggression" came about

Yeah but the protection of the Russian minority was a key mandate.

You want to talk about historical context yet fail to contextualize anything shown to you. Your "spurring debate" is actually just bad propaganda

If everyone was friendly, why did Ukraine not give Russia their soverign land?

Everyone was friendly right after the dissolution of the SU. With the prospect of NATO expansion and initially friendly Russia getting declined 3 times into the alliance they added 1 and 1 together.

The people of Ukraine voted for Zelensky fighting Russian influence for this exact reason.

Zelenski got voted for because he promised an end to the civil war in donbas https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955 https://www.france24.com/en/20190416-russian-speakers-ukraine-candidate-talking-language

a defensive pact

Like in Yugoslavia?

Sure but you're ignoring that the Soviet Union got dissolved and had a friendly western handpicked succesor at that point. So no more threat to UA, no? NATOs purpose was also a reaction to the creation of Soviet Russia, but what was it's purpose after the dissolution of the SU? Why join and expand NATO when everyones friendly now?

Yes and I asked you what changed and if you can contextualize. You yourself understand that historical context is important. After all ignoring historical context would rob this conflict of it's meaning, no? Or are you one of those rubes that believes Putin ordered an attack out of his own volition?

Under your own definition earlier propaganda would apply to individuals as well, not only states. Also I'd disagree that propaganda is one sided. Good propaganda encompasses and undermines other viewpoints.

As for spurring debate and maintaining an understanding for historical context. How do you contextualize among others things like this:

Biden predicting in 1997 what would happen if NATO expands https://www.c-span.org/video/?86974-1/nato-expansion If Biden knew that Russia wouldn't tolerate NATO expansion, why push for it anyway if war is on the table?

Putin being handselected by Clinton and Yeltsin https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html How does he go from good guy to bad guy in such a short span of time? What changed?

The leaked nuland phone call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk38Jk_JL0g

How do you differentiate between propaganda and "spurring debate"?

Propaganda is rhetoric designed to produce support for or against particular decisions/actions.

Sounds kinda like kinda what you're trying to do here. Would you agree?

I intake media from all side

Russian propaganda

What do you understand as propaganda? And how do you designate what is and what isnt (If you do)

debate