this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025

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776

The Zionist logic (lemmy.ml)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

159 comments fedilink hide all child comments

(page 4) 47 comments

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[–] [email protected] 114 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Obligatory reminder that when Polish envoy Jan Karski presented evidence of holocaust to British and US government and societal elites during his mission in 1942 and 1943 he was basically ignored.

[–] [email protected] 98 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (22 children)

Additional reminder that Hitler's invasion of Europe was tolerated by the major powers riiiiight up until he invaded one of the "countries that actually matter".

Additional additional reminder that the major powers initially PRAISED Hitler for killing all the communists.

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[+] [email protected] -15 points 4 months ago (23 children)

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (13 children)

What a shock, a .worlder advocating for collective punishment and excusing genocide.

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[+] [email protected] -6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (9 children)

But who is the responsible party here? Who first began spouting out rhetoric of annihilation towards a whole ethnic group? Zionists, go back to theodore herzel and the original middle eastern terrorist groups Haganah, palmach and lehi who were responsible for dozens of violent attacks and killed an estimated 6-8000 Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as occupying British forces. In the years before the israeli occupation began These terrorist groups were then simultaneously condemned by the newly established israeli government while their military absorbed their leadership and members into their newly formed military apparatus. Im not saying hamas’s actions are any less awful, but international law does state that indigenous populations have a right to defend themselves by any means necessary and they are clearly defending themselves when you see the ratio of casualties was in the 20 to 1 range and that was before Israel used the 10-7-23 attack as pretense to unleash an all out annihilation of the Palestinian population in gaza and around other settler projects as well.

Israel bears responsibility here and ignoring this while saying “hamas is bad” and “do you condemn hamas” just shows a level of ignorance that is astoundingly absurd. When israel is clearly guilty of rhetoric and actions that are objectively worse but holding hamas to a standard that israel is free from being measured against. What planet are we on here?

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Let's not pretend that the Nazis didn't have a massive amount of support (and still does). Reminder that the vast majority of Germans at the time were in full support of the Holocaust in the same way that the vast majority of Israelis are in full support of the genocide in Palestine. Badmouthing the Holocaust in any of the Axis Powers countries would have been met with the same kind of backlash, and people in the Anglosphere just don't want to admit that the societies we live in are the new Axis Powers and do in fact want the Palestinians exterminated the same way that Nazi Germany wanted the Jews exterminated.

[+] [email protected] -24 points 4 months ago (4 children)

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Let’s call it a cluster fuck that has been going on for 100s of years

Lets not, because you're flat out lying about that, bangcrash. 100 years. Not hundreds. In the ~800 years of the ottoman empire this wasnt happening, and that empire ended in November 1922.

Zionists like to lie about this history to make it seem like an intractable problem of ethnic hatred, but its self serving BS driven by 80 years of apartheid by Israel on the people living in that region, starting with the Zionist terrorism leading up to the Nakba.

The UN needs to admit they royally effed up in creating Israel back in 1948, and walk that back. Zionist terrorists have no right to be known as an israeli state in 1948, and no right to treat human beings in this manner from then until today. Israel needs to be disolved and the Israelis sent back to Russia and Europe where they came from. 80 years is enough. the ongoing injustice and genocide needs to end before the Israelis kill every non-jew in the region.

If the UN cannot or will not do that they are criminals themselves and should disolve in shame.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Let’s call it a cluster fuck that has been going on for 100s of years. And will continue well past your and my deaths.

Then. We. Should. Stop. Arming. Israel.

Because as it stands now, Western countries are not just complicit in genocide, they're actively helping to perpetuate it. Your tax dollars are being used to exterminate an ethnic group. Mine too.

If we were to ACTUALLY call it a clusterfuck and walk away, that would be BETTER than what we're doing right now.

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[+] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Mods, ya gotta stop being so fucking trigger happy. I want to see what this person said.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

You can click on the little arrow on the righternmost of up/down vote buttons and from the popup menu choose the comment moderation history, it would show you the content of removed post.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I thought mod logs are public on Lemmy? Can't you go see them?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Apparently im also banned from non credible defence for not following “rule 11”, but I can’t find a list of the rules anywhere so ? lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Rule 11 in their sidebar says “no misinformation” - perhaps you conflated an opinion for fact?

If you go to sh.it just.works’s website and search the mod log by your name you’ll see what comment “earned” you a ban.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Oh I guess I can if I don’t use Memmy. Apparently I got banned for “bigotry” on a bunch of subs I’ve never used in blahaj. As far as I can tell it’s because I said “seems like unnecessary rage bait” on a post about Pixar removing a trans story from one of their shows. lol how stupid.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You’re permabanned from the entire instance: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/modlog?actionType=ModBan&userId=8711226

[–] [email protected] -5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Lol oh. I didn’t even say anything bigoted! Haha oh well.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

I didn’t even say anything bigoted!

ok: https://beehaw.org/modlog?page=1&userId=9724172

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Lol, every time.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Condemn? I commend freedom fighters taking military action against settler colonial ethnocentric apartheid genociders.

Do you also condemn the ANC?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those. There are other ways than violence to get rid of them. Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Hamas has tried all other ways. They did a peaceful march in 2019 and Israel still massacred them.

Hamas killed very few civilians. Most of those killed were trained soldiers who would have now participated in the Gaza genocide

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.

Getting all high and mighty about when Palestinians kill civilians while conveniently ignoring Israel's actions (both after this event and in the decades that led to it) makes your argument extremely bad faith.

If we're going by number of civilians killed by each side, then the Palestinians are very much in the right.

Also, define civilian. I wasn't there, have no stake in either side, and obviously have no personal desire for anyone on either side to get harmed, but I can sort of underatand why the victims of a genocidal occupation might not exactly consider the occupiers who stole their land to be innocent civilians.

instead of letting it cook like we now do.

"Letting it cook" would be an improvement to what we're currently doing, which is actively supporting and arming Israel.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians.

The ANC also attacked civilians. Though you should note how dramatically more the Israelis (and the SA government and white South Africans) target civilians.

There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.

When under occupation, any means necessary is not only sanctioned by international law, it is necessary. Note that the kibbutzim in the area had armories and shot at the al Aqsa flood participants, which included a wide coalition as well as whoever simply went past the walls of their own volition.

How is it senseless, by the way? Do you actually know what happened on the ground? Who did what? What was going in in their heads? What their lives were? There is an implicit chauvinism in the use of clichés and guesses rather than become educated.

There are other ways than violence to get rid of them.

No there aren't. You apparently know nothing about the history here, the many movements that attempted peaceful means, even as recent as the Great March of Return in 2018. And the repeated lies and violence that Palestinians have faced following every diplomatic agreement.

As you can see, the Israelis will speed up and openly embrace genocide at the mere perception that they are not totally dominant over those that they occupy. Israelis march not for peace or justice, but for harsher violence and getting rapists out of jail. They are an ethnic supremacist culture that embrace the genocide they are committing. You cannot "peace" your way out of that. You would condemn Palestinians to extinction.

For concentration camp victims, they are far more restrained than virtually anyone. Would you also condemn the Sioux for killing settlers occupying their land? Why not instead materially oppose the settler colonists? Your tut-tutting is just tacit both-sidesing of a decidedly imbalanced situation.

Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

There is not. You have an unrealistic idea about how geopolitics and imperialist violence function. It is not like the movies or the 1 or 2 examples of allegedly nonviolent movements recuperated by capitalism. You're not going to win just because you are right or empathetic. You will not convince your captors and child murderers with a good speech and some protests. Most of the states, i.e. the major sourcea of military power in the world, will not step in to help you unless it serves their self interest - and most capitalist countries see subverting themselves to the US and therefore Israel as in their self interest.

And when states or similar forces do step up, you get tacit genocide apologetic PR campaigns against them. Such as, "do you condemn Hamas?"

The historical and realistic source of liberation is organized armed struggle.