this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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As a strong supporter of open-source and community-funded projects like Lemmy, which prioritize serving users over investors, I believe Lemmy has significant potential, and that's why I am here. However, it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form. Despite the surge in users following Reddit's API changes, Lemmy continues to primarily attract tech-savvy individuals, politically left-aligned users, and those accustomed to old Reddit. For Lemmy to reach the broader average general audience, meaningful changes are necessary.

The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter. This same ease of use is what Mastodon lacked, leading to its initial hype fading quickly. The average user is unlikely to adapt to something that feels complicated or unfamiliar, and this challenge also applies to Lemmy.

As someone who started as an average Reddit user and became more tech-savvy over time, I can confidently say that first impressions matter. When users first visit lemmy.world, the default UI is often enough to discourage them from staying. Most will not explore the homepage sidebar to explore, figure out and switch to one of the alternative UIs available, which is unfortunate because a better UI could make a huge difference.

This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface. Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit. It makes excellent use of screen space and provides customization options like compact and cozy views. Unlike some other alternative UIs, Photon is actively maintained and ready for widespread use, although in no way is it perfect, this can also help bring in more contributors to the project development.

While it is important to continue offering other UIs as options, I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user. First impressions are crucial, and the current default UI has turned off many potential users. If we want Lemmy to succeed as a true Reddit alternative, we need to prioritize user experience and accessibility. Thankfully today, Lemmy still continues to be THE biggest Reddit alternative, while our userbase is still considerably smaller than Reddit, it's the biggest of any alternatives, and Lemmy continues to somewhat be in the spotlight for those seeking alternatives, we can't let growth stagnate, it's high time we make the platform more welcoming and appealing for the average joe.

EDIT: The image I attached is from photon.lemmy.world, which I just realized is using the outdated version of Photon, I have updated the image to the updated current photon version from phtn.app. There are a lot of improvements made.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I like it simple. I use Jerbora on Android and can't be happier. I use duckduckgo browser and it's YouTube mode, so I have no ads, cookies, trackers or popups. It's actually close to perfect.

Compared to e.g. Discord, I feel like wasting most screen real estate for static eye candy info,... no thanks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I basically only use mobile apps, so I don't even remember what the desktop UI looks like. But if you say so!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

Yup. Voyager/Wefwef is basically the new Apollo. It’s not 100% there in terms of feature parity, but it’s damned close and is being actively developed.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

This UI is so beautiful

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

I'm on Eternity for lemmy. Best app cause I came from Infinity for reddit

[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (20 children)

Hi everyone, I'm the dev. Reading all these comments really hurts when it's something you've poured your heart and soul into for over a year.

There's reasons I do everything I do in this UI, and my primary goal is to make Lemmy accessible for everyone.

This is the "cozy" view as well, but there's a "compact" view for people like me who enjoy more information density. Again, my end goal is to make Lemmy accessible. I don't do this for the sidebars for convoluted reasons I won't get into.

I'm not the one trying to advertise it, and I've never really tried to because of the fear of disapproval. I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood. This screenshot uses the "list" view, imo the worst one, with some cursed chrome scrollbars.

Now that I see that the majority of users believe this sucks, I'm not sure if my mission is worth it or if I'm even doing it right.

I'm probably being too sensitive to criticism which I should expect from any project. But this project is the only one I used to feel proud of, then people chiming in claiming it's the ugliest thing they've seen. I don't know im blind to design which is the only thing I considered myself "good" at in terms of web dev.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Yeah Lemmy has an unfriendly community. UI is really hard and I know exactly what you mean when you say everything has a reason behind it.

FWIW, Ima migrate my personal private Lemmy to photon because I think it looks great.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dude UI (and anything to do with looks) is always a subjective thing. Some people will like it and some people will hate it. I know every dev wants their UI to be loved by everyone but that's a fools errand as there are always people with opposing opinions. What matters is that ~~that~~ you like what you have created. Also know that there are people like me and many others who use photon daily and love the design. Don't let subjective opinions get you down.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Don't take it that way. I find the default UI horrible and primarily use Lemmy on Voyager on my phone because of it. Finding this thread let me find that I can comfortably use Lemmy on desktop too! 🥳

I didn't join Lemmy for a while because I liked the "new" reddit UI better and found Lemmy too different to use easily. I tried all the different options and I didn't like them. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED ON DESKTOP!

And remember survivorship bias. The ones that can put up with the Lemmy UI, or switch to something they like better, are (for the most part) the only ones here now giving feedback.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Never used your project but don’t let this thread get you down.

Clearly OP loves it - don’t let those who don’t know it or don’t like it be the voices that ring loudest in your ears even if they hurt the most.

I worked professionally in open source at a company with lots of funding. The tools I worked on were used by millions and millions.

Every negative comment hurt so much. Every angry user I wanted to talk to. Most of them wanted to TALK AT me. It all hurt. And I was being paid. The engineers on my teams were burnt by the community time and time again.

If you love what you’re doing and you have a growing or happy audience - stay the course. Listen to criticism, decide if you agree (and maybe take some time when it hurts because the criticism might be valid), make a decision and move on.

Also, and this is going to be tough, maybe think about expanding or modifying what you mean when you say making Lemmy accessible for everyone.

Do you mean making a UI that will become the majority default or making a UI that brings some features (or perspective) for users who see value in those features? Trying to make something for everyone in a pond as small as the fediverse, where there are already a plethora of options is a big lift.

Above all, do you. And that includes this comment which I encourage you to promptly ignore. ;)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

I assume you mean the dev of Photon UI?

An important thing to remember when it comes to feedback is that there are different audiences. The only feedback you'll get here is from Lemmy users, the people already here, the grognards, the Linux heads who don't understand why anyone would need a GUI at all when the terminal is right there! All to say, a bunch of wads who would rather leave a big community for a smaller one that suits their preferences. They don't know jack all about jack shit when it comes to designing for a general audience.

All to say, if what you want to design is accessibility... solicit feedback from people who need and understand accessibility features. I have no idea where those people are but I bet you're savvy enough to find them.

If you can design something that looks like OP's screenshot (and better, based on your comment), you straight up need not concern yourself with the negative feedback on this thread. Bunch of wankers. Continue being awesome and making awesome stuff!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago

Hello @[email protected] ,

First of all, really sorry that you took it that way. A few comments were indeed harsh, and I guess people were just focused on the interface and forgot that there's actually someone behind it.

I personally value Photon a lot, it definitely helps a lot of people who prefer this type of interfaces.

I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood.

I think you don't even need to advertise it that much. We have Photon as an alternative frontend on one of the instances I follow, and people regularly bug the admin to update it because they like it!

The negativity this post received is probably because interfaces are a very personal matter, and trying to uniformize the default interface is always going to lead to heated discussions

Take care, you are doing an amazing job.

FYI @[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

For those who may not be aware there are alternative front ends available for Lemmy.

MLMYM is like old reddit. You can see what it looks like here:

mlmym.walledgarden.xyz

Voyager is multi platform interface that also offers a Lemmy frontend. Our implementation is here:

voyager.walledgarden.xyz

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Agreed on all counts.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Photon is dope, pretty sure its developed by our very own Admiral Picard. But I haven't seen a Lemmy UI that I didnt like yet.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's Tesseract.

Photon is developped by @[email protected]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Ah, both are dope though. Can't say I hate either one for their modern looks. Though the only UIs I have ever hated have all been ones I made.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Different OG ex-redditor here. I think Lemmy's UI is vastly superior. But full disclosure, I used old reddit.

How is it clear that Lemmy's growth is nearing a plateau? And why does Lemmy need broader growth? That seems like a solution in search of a problem. A major advantage of not being a corporate social media property is not having to think like one.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Nice! But the average users graph shows continual staggering growth, no sign of a plateau.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

45k monthly active users on 14 October
44k monthly active users on 11 December

The first graph is generally considered the most relevant to assess the activity on the platform

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

On a longer time scale the monthly active users has been steadily trending down for 4 months, from 48k to 44k. But the users per day has been steadily growing - apart from whatever TF happened on Oct 14 when it suddenly dropped by 50k if I'm reading it right. Database problem?

I'm kind of curious how these readings are taken. The Fox News claim of being "America's most watched cable news network" is based on a Neilson rating that records TVs multiple times a day, which heavily overweights ones people keep on it all day whether they're watching or not. Fox does much worse on another Neilson stat called the "qume" which only records one hit per day per TV if that TV was tuned to a channel at all during that day - a much better indicator that people deliberately switched to a channel to watch it for a while. I don't suppose we know how these Lemmy averages are arrived at.

Anyway, the posts and comments per day - which to me defines "activity" better than number of users, are both steady upward lines - unless fewer users who are more active is a bad trend.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

There's a lot of discussion about the "comments and posts per days" metrics, the consensus seems to be that they should be "total" rather than "per day"

https://lemmy.world/comment/13761285

People are posting the same, the graphs just go up because they are about the total number of comments and posts, not daily.

Meaning that we indeed have hit a plateau of 44k monthly active users.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago

I think we need to actually do some new user testing, instead of endless discussion with nothing to back it up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

We need to be better than Reddit in every way!

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