this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 16 hours ago (4 children)

I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil.

Firstly, undestanding what left actually is would be a good start. You're not talking about the left. You're talking about liberals. Liberalism isn't left. Liberalism is right-wing, and always have been.

The actual left is very happy to be "uncivil."

Secondly, a good second step would be to finally accept that liberals, and liberalism in general, has never, and will never, oppose fascism.

Those are two very basic things you can do right now.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

So the way it looks now, Trump has won the presidency, and his allies will have the senate and house of representatives, and they already had the supreme court. The three branches of government will not be working as checks on each other's power, unless we get very lucky and the various factions that make up the GOP split. This is obviously very, very bad, but there are still some checks on presidential power.

  1. Trump's last term was a clusterfuck. Things may just be so disorganized that he struggles to actually get what he wants done.

  2. The states have limited power to defy the feds. While case law does state that federal law supercedes state law, that doesn't mean all States will immediately cooperate wholeheartedly. Obviously a court battle will eventually get to the supreme court, but that takes time and requires a single panel of judges to beat multiple states into line on each new policy.

  3. Governments do have a small amount of caution when it comes to their people. One thing the crazy conservatives had right this whole time was that fundamentally, nobody was ever going to come for their guns because nobody wants to force a confrontation with a bunch of armed lunatics. In the same way, they'll probably try to avoid massive riots and general strikes simply because it isn't worth the fight to whoever is responsible.

  4. Citizens can resist. Go to protests, donate to political advocacy organizations (the ACLU will have its work cut out for it), and for Christ's sake, go vote! Show up every year, just not every 4 years. Without the cooperation of congress, his power would be significantly curtailed.

  5. If nothing else, terms are limited. In 2 years we can swing congress. He isn't going to be able to pass a constitutional amendment to do what he likes before that. If we swing congress in two years, it will slow him down significantly, and then we can replace him in 2028. Hopefully people will actually keep showing up long enough after that to reverse all the damage he's likely to do in the next 4 years.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 17 hours ago

Win back? This country was bought and paid for long before any of us were alive. We keep fighting against the oligarhy for liberty and freedom like we've always done.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 17 hours ago

Too late for that.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 17 hours ago

Realistically? It's too late.

We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".

It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.

This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.

Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.

It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 18 hours ago

Blame the democrats for choosing a weak nominee. The left could either whine and burn down every big city or give trump another ear piercing, your choice guys.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

They don't. It was never their country to begin with, clearly.

The majority of the U.S. has been racist, bigoted, misogynists from the beginning. Hell, the entire electoral college system that just fucked everyone over is a compromise that was put into place because a bunch of rich white landowners in the Antebellum south couldn't stand the idea of freed black men's votes having as much power as theirs. So they immediately rigged the system to keep them in control of who gets power because you better believe no black man was ever going to be an elector.

That is who your country is. There was a brief period from the 60s to the 80s where it became declasse to be an asshole, and so they mostly shut up during that time when they were in public, and then went home and took out their frustration by beating their wives and kids.

Then along came the modern republican party, who began to tear down that cloak of respectability, and it emboldened all of those wife beating shit-heads to say "Hey...we can be assholes again...go us."

This is your America. It always has been. I'm sorry if that hurts. I really am. But right now I'm also goddamned angry at your country on behalf of my country and all the others that have to be caught in the blast.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

That's how I see it and I'm sure many like me (not us citizens) will start to see it. People aren't being fooled, they like what they see in it when they voted. At least half Americans do

[–] [email protected] 63 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc...

You're really asking, "how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?"

The answer is, generally, they don't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

I think that is an oversimplification. He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right? So we cannot accurately say that the majority is fascist. We can only say that the voting majority is fascist.

And then we need to look at who was conned, and how. Of course people who got conned need to work harder to avoid that in the future. We all agree on that. At the same time, the con artists and the people who enable the con, we also need to identify them and figure out what's making them successful. If we talk about major newspapers and TV networks failing to cover how bad Trump actually was, or putting Harris on unrealistic pedestal, newspaper owners refusing to allow newspaper editors to endorse a candidate, the way Fox News preys on people who grew up trusting TV news and now have only watched Fox for the last two decades, open lies about who's eating cats and dogs, a DNC that pushes centrist candidates even after 2016 when the weakness was exposed, and it's clear that many left-wing voters are wildly unhappy, those are all things that smaller groups have done to help create the situation that we saw yesterday. And that's just a short list.

So what I hope we can do, is I hope we can avoid saying something trite like, this is what the American people wanted, full stop. If you want to make that a conversation starter, go for it. But it shouldn't be a dismissive conversation ender, because it ignores what actually happened and What will continue to happen in the future.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right?

Right, the rest are just so lazy and consumed by apathy that they could not be bothered to vote when THESE were the stakes. I think we can confidently rule them out for any advocacy for our freedom.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

The Democratic Party needs to run a candidate that is elected through a fair primary process. When this happens, dems win.

2008 - Obama was popular and won the primary 2012 - same 2016 - It was deemed Clinton’s turn, she was given every advantage, and lost 2020 - Biden won the primary as elected by the people, then won again 2024 - Harris was given the candidacy without having to primary, and lost

It is a simple trend.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Though to be fair, Biden won the (practically uncontested) primaries in 2024 and probably would have gotten his shit stomped in just as hard

[–] [email protected] 2 points 15 hours ago

Biden was losing 2020 by an embarrassing margin until ALL the other candidates except Bernie Sanders dropped out to coalesce behind Biden in SC.

Whatever happened to Liz "et tu, Brute" Warren?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I wouldn’t call the 2024 primaries fair. Biden was ordained, like Clinton.

There’s a reason these predetermined candidates keep losing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 16 hours ago

Yeah, I probably should've put won in quotes, but I'd argue there's still a small difference between running as the incumbent and the situation with Clinton. Not that it really fucking matters now.

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