Sorry to detract a bit, though in what ways could this be compared to effects with cannabis (since cannabis has been known to cause the user to skip REM or a great deal of it)?
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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Personal anecdote. My drinking days are long over, and now I limit my alcohol consumption to 1-2 drinks on Friday, right after work. The alcohol varies - a beer, a cider, 2 glasses of wine, or a glass of hot whiskey on particularly cold evenings. I also do a lot of fitness, so I'm monitoring my health pretty closely, in particular HRV at night, which is an amazing indicator of my sleep quality and overall health. I have a nearly perfect correlation between an evening drink and a drop of HRV into red zones, and the corresponding drop in sleep quality. The effect of the drink is so strong that I skip it altogether if I plan on having a long hard run the next day.
Loads of anti-science types in this community.
Just take it for what it's worth instead of offering your reason of why the study can't possibly be of any use to anyone.
OH MAN am I looking forward to the day I quit social media for good.
I’m with ya.
Aperitif, not nightcap, is the way I roll. Found out a long term ago it is bad for my sleep to be even remotely buzzed, at all. I sleep sober, only. If I am having a drink it's before supper, if I miss the window I just don't, no big deal.
But I know so many people who say they sleep better with one drink at night before bed, are they all wrong?
I've been dry for this year so far and anecdotally my sleep has slightly improved (not hugely noticeable by myself) my garmin data tells a very clear picture. drinking fucks with my heart overnight and now I have evidence (for myself)
are they all wrong?
I've always heard so many people talk about how epic their sleep and dreams are after quitting alcohol OR weed, people who never quit or take a break would just never know.
Sleep /better/ without weed? How does that work? Genuinly interested.
It’s called “how everyone else does it.”
Give it a try man
Weed is actually terrible for sleep, and I say this as an everyday user.
It stops you from entering rem sleep. People report a lot of dreams after quitting because of a phenomenon known as "rem rebound" where you will have a lot of rem sleep.
Thank you for being the only person responding to my genuine question. I'll give it a go.
Yes.
Wild that you're being down voted, the study literally discusses this and there's plenty of others. My ex is an alcoholic and would claim it helped him sleep, but I saw him get a few hours at best with high consumption, and when consumption lowered he'd sleep longer and with better quality without waking up as frequently. People claiming it helps them are lying to themselves, as is the nature of addiction.
Yeah going to sleep drunk is stupid. If you have one drink while making dinner, one with dinner and one after dinner, and then go to sleep 2+ hours later, almost entirely sober, then this study has no bearing on that.
For me, even if I do binge drink a little later than is prudent, I'll stay up a bit until I start sobering up. And I definitely feel way better than when I go to bed when my body is still processing a stomach fill of alcohol.
For me, if I'm 100% sober, I sleep fine. If I have 5 or 6 beers or white wine only, no more and no less, I sleep great. If I have 1-4 drinks, 6 or more, or red wine/liquor, I sleep like absolute shit. This only really counts if I have them right up until I go to bed. If I have my drinks earlier in the day and nothing from say suppertime onward, I usually sleep fine.
However, if I drink more than a couple days in a row, I sleep like shit regardless of how much I have and it takes about 4 days of no alcohol until I sleep well again. As a result, I really only drink on Friday and Saturday nights, with some exceptions for long weekends and vacations, which are offset by taking dry months every now and then.
Having a drink before going to sleep at 9 Is better than laying awake until 2 am tossing and turning for 3 hours and getting up at 5.
Its literally a tough decision. I remember sleeping a lot better when I was still drinking alcohol, especially one or two beers to dinner.
Due to personal circumstances, my nervous system is on constant alert and years of training did get it down a bit but one bad experience makes it spike 10x.
I decided to quit because it was becoming very regular. My sleep quality has gotten a lot better since the beginning but also its been 5-6 yrs since I quit. Regular exercise and meditation did the trick.
Due to personal circumstances, my nervous system is on constant alert and years of training did get it down a bit but one bad experience makes it spike 10x.
Same. Just started a new job too and my shit has been going nuts. I'm not even struggling with anything my body is just freaking out for no reason. I try not to rely on alcohol to deal with it but when it's really bad sometimes that's the only thing that works and let's me level out. I will probably quit for a while after I get through the new job nerves though because I'm definitely drinking too much the last couple weeks.
I‘d suggest a „pause“. Just see how long you can make it. It takes the „I can never do x again“ pressure away and makes it a lot easier to keep off something. Did the same with smoking.
Have you tried yoga/meditation? I make breathing exercises if stuff gets rough. Either awake or when I want to fall asleep. I count breaths in and out. When I come to 100 I start over. My brain calms down at repetitive stuff and i get tired.
I do breathing exercises and they do help a little but not usually enough to get to sleep or stay asleep.
So no exercise at all? Thats a pretty important part imo.
Have you considered or tried medication?
You didn't mention exercise before but I do weight lifting and various forms of cardio. I'm in very good shape physically but those do not help at all with my sleep. Medication requires going to a doctor and that's too expensive.
Whoops. I did include it mentally but as I see now I didnt actually say it. Sorry.
Very tough situation you‘re in. What country do you live in?
U.S.
Why is that no surprise to me? The american dream these days to me feels like „I hope I can make it before I become seriously sick or injured.“
I suppose you have no way of getting insurance or some program to help you? Because self medicating with alcohol is pretty brutal for your health over time.
I have insurance but every time I go to a doctor they always still manage to make it cost 100+$ and thanks to their incomprehensible medical billing codes I don't even have a way to budget for it if they decide to do some test that costs a lot and insurance comes back saying it's not covered after the fact.
I'm mitigating the alcohol thing by only using it in majorly stressful times. Normally I don't drink as much.
Thats quite horrifying. Sorry you have to go through that.
So can looking at screens. And temperature. And eating spicy food. And...
So, just drink in the morning, simple.
The author of the article took bit of liberty with a "even a small amount". 0.08 BAC is around 2-3 drinks for most people depending on sex and weight. It's also legally drunk in most places.
So what the study is slowing us yet more proof why overuse of alcohol is detrimental to a person's health. The only thing interesting in this study is it shows possible evidence of the mechanism that causes the harm.
Studies have consistently shown that anything above 1-2 drinks daily or 0.04-0.06 BAC is bad for your health. As with any other drug, the correct dosage is key.
Now why the study authors decided not to include a 0.04 BAC level control in their study is beyond me. The lower dose repeatedly shows benefits in large scale population studies.
Can you expand on the "lower dose benefits"? I assumed that the benefits of wine were related to antioxidants in certain drinks rather than the alcohol itself.
They originally theorized it was the antioxidants 30+ years ago. However more recent papers have shown that it's the alcohol itself that has the benefits, at the right dosage.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jacc.2007.04.089
Here is one of the better writups I have found on the subject.
I drink very little, usually only one or two beers a week. But on the rare occasion I have a couple drinks with friends late at night, I sleep like a baby. I feel well rested after only 4-6 hours, and actually have dreams almost every time. Which doesn't happen most nights without alcohol.
I find this a little alarming, as I see how that could be habit forming. But yeah, alcohol seems to drastically improve my sleep, though I haven't given this thorough testing for obvious reasons.
I drink may be once a quarter or 6 months . I don't remember last time drank. But when I drink ( that too only red wine a glass ) I sleep very nicely, very deeply and I feel refreshed next day, and all stress if there is any or thoughts causing disturbance are not felt at all next day
I suspect you have that sleep mutation which allows you to feel rested after only 4-6 hours. That’s not enough sleep to be well rested even without alcohol.
it depends. if I get 4-6 hours sleep while camping I usually wake up full of energy and ready to take on the world. that said, I don't often sleep well outdoors so 4 broken hours is usually what I'd consider "a good night"
Similarly, I used to think that alcohol, stress and caffeine didn't bother my sleep like everyone said it would (FYI I was working 2 jobs and raising 3 highschool aged kids at the time.) I thought I was sleeping fine.
Then through a multitude of life changes, my kids grew up and I was in a far better place. I also started wearing a fitness watch that tracks sleep quality, stress, etc. Turns out I'm not a super hero, I was just exhausted and passing the fuck out and not recognizing (because I didn't have other options) how much it had effected me.
Now I rarely drink, not because there's anything wrong with it but because I have a visual record of the stress it causes my body and have come to recognize that I do actually sleep better without it. That said, as menopause is creeping up on me I've tracked hormonally related sleep challenges. After months of experimentation, 2.5-5mg indica gummy and 1mg of melatonin within the hour before bed and I typically sleep like a baby. (Melatonin by itself leaves me feeling slightly groggy for some stupid reason, but this combo balances.)
Melatonin was so weird for me. Identical dosage from different brands felt wildly different, and some wildly vivid and violent nightmares.
I had the same reaction, rarely drink, maybe a couple every other weekend, and I sleep like a log after that. I find that beer or spirits help me sleep well, but I’ll wake up feeling like a new man after a few glasses of wine.
As someone that likes booze a little to much, drinking helps me fall asleep easily but I personally feel much more tired when I drink. Outside of actually being able to fall asleep fast (fuck insomnia) the quality of my sleep is much worse.
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