As you can see, the hundredth monkey effect seems more like spitting in one hand and wishing in the other.
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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We need to grow our numbers! The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.
Erica Chenoweth has a very well researched presentation on the success of non-violent resistance overthrowing dictatorships with only 3.5% of the population. I highly recommend it.
Come out today for the Free America protest! We also have the Good Trouble Lives On protest on July 17th.
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The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.
I emphatically reject these claims. Both nonviolent and violent resistance is necessary. The following quote from the Black Catalyst Revolt Guide is relevant:
If we are to learn from the successful movements of the past, we can see that all successful pressure has been the collusion of the peaceful and non-peaceful aspects of the movement, such that the peaceful party can lobby the state to concede, saying to them “now see? Wouldn’t you rather deal with me than them? Sit down and make some concessions to those suffering people.” Meanwhile, the non-peaceful protesters escalate the aggression of their actions such as to put a clock on the state. Direct action should therefore not be seen as a chaotic byproduct to be avoided. It should instead be seen as a necessity as to extract outcomes for the movement. Ultimately, if the demands of the protests are not met, revolution should be the threat. In this way, we are to transform the government to our whims, not vise versa.
You should watch the Eric's Chenowith video that was linked in the above comment
Yeah I'll get around to it, although I've heard that claim before and I don't disagree with the need for mass mobilization, some of which is going to be nonviolent. But IMO the nonviolent parts of the revolt need to collaborate with the violent parts of the revolt!
Her research shows why that's likely wrong. Definitely check it out!
Okay, I watched their Ted talk. The red flag for me is the clean separation of revolts into either strictly violent or strictly nonviolent. It is my view that a more careful study of the history of all the revolts labeled successful and partially successful would reveal that many if not all of those revolts succeeded because of the complementary (if not collaborative) efforts of both nonviolent and violent protests. History glorifies the nonviolent protesters because they're easy to lionize, without any of the ethical complexities that violent protests invite.
IMO it seems like they went in looking for a hypothesis and managed to spin the statistics to justify it. I'll look into their research as I'm sure it goes into more detail, but I'm so far not convinced.
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Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
Violent resistance can be justified against violent oppression
It’s not a question that it’s morally justified. My point is that it’s not legal. Don’t walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States.
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Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety
Same with nonviolent resistance! Worse for nonviolent resistance! Did you see what the pigs did to those protesters in LA? All over the country during the No Kings protests?!?
and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
Fascists don't need to be emboldened. They are already fully monsters. No matter how peacefully you protest, the fascists will treat you as if you revolted.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
Not as many as you think! Remember Vietnam?
I mean embolden through legislation. Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.
Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right? We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.
Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.
No it absolutely does not justify that stuff. Being a threat to the powerful is not the same as being a threat to the average person.
Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right?
I'm suggesting that the working class defends itself against the capitalist using a diversity of tactics, including violence if necessary and possibly a revolt, and that violence is necessary. On average, these fascist fucks don't know our homes, our neighborhoods, our cities, or our wilderness as well as we do. I think there is a chance of winning if we organize as groups willing to fight.
We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.
I'm not against that 😈🏴
Not in your mind, maybe, but legally it’s the same thing. Violence will be used as justification to enact legislation that will restrict our resistance. Just look at how the early morning vandals and looters in LA got the city to enact a curfew, and they weren’t even part of the protest.
No, legally too, they will use your protest as justification if a sufficiently rowdy one cannot be exhibited. And then when your protest ceases to exist, they'll fabricate an incident to justify escalation.
The people in charge are already fully monsters who will wield the law as needed to get their dirty work done, regardless of how peacefully you protest, regardless of how perfect a victim you make yourself, regardless of what the law says.
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