this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024

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458

Red-painted fascists never change (lemmy.world)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

130 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Also, in b4 fascists start pretending like the Stalinist bootlicker Thalmann hadn't spent the past half-decade backstabbing and burning bridges with the SPD, which had previously been cooperative with the KPD after the establishment of the Weimar Republic.

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[–] [email protected] 124 points 4 months ago (12 children)

Collapse theory is fundamentally a privileged take. It is a position that is impossible to accept without either the assumption that you'd survive, or the assumption that the disproportionate harm to the disadvantaged is worth it for your end goals even if you die too.

Either way, you're declaring that your paradise can and should be built over the bodies of the disemprivileged, and are automatically wrong and a horrible person for even being able to think that way.

You are the exact kind of monster that built the colonialist model of Israel, just insisting that your nation built on the bodies of the innocent will be a more moral one somehow.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

if democrats really cared about ppl voting, they would be introducing proportional representation (eg ranked choice) electoral reforms rather then blaming voters for knowing exactly what the democrats are...

that said... hold your nose and go vote if you are in a swing state.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They are.

https://apnews.com/article/rankedchoice-voting-connecticut-lamont-elections-f8514d3ebffedbbfe5a6c50f83690d11

People don’t pay attention and completely ignore their local elections in favor of national. People need to focus more on the local before expecting national changes.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 4 months ago

if democrats really cared about ppl voting, they would be introducing proportional representation (eg ranked choice) electoral reforms rather then blaming voters for knowing exactly what the democrats are…

There's been considerable momentum towards ranked choice reform in the US in the past few years, most of it through the Dems.

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[+] [email protected] -51 points 4 months ago (9 children)

You’re calling anti genocide protesters fascist now?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Who are you going to vote for that will stop supporting genocide? Do you think any President will force divestment from Israel? Or end the massive influx of Chinese goods through Walmart and Amazon?

[+] [email protected] -15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

When there is no option to vote against genocide you turn to the streets. What have you done to stop the genocide? Shame other people for not voting for the party that will continue funding a genocide?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (1 children)

When there is no option to vote against genocide you turn to the streets.

You've got a little under two months to overthrow the government. If your master plan isn't completed by then, the only moral choice is to vote strategically.

[+] [email protected] -13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Only a small portion of the US needs to go on strike for it to be monetarily catastrophic for the ruling class to continue their strong support for the genocide. So yes, I think that a general strike is way more likely to stop the genocide than convincing people to vote for a party that will continue use their taxes to fund genocide.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay, so, like I said, you have a little under two months to complete that. Otherwise? Accept that political power comes with political responsibility.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay. Do you agree that calling people who are actually trying to do this fascist is twisted, given the fact that they are actively trying to change fascist decisions by the current US government through historically proven to be effective means?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Okay. Do you agree that calling people who are actually trying to do this fascist is twisted,

Only if their anti-genocide protest consists of helping fascists into power. All other anti-genocide protesters are based in my book.

Please try reading what I say before responding to it.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 4 months ago (14 children)

If, in a saw-esque limited outcome system, you use your action to better the chances of turbo-genocide-fascist trump, then I have beef with the true motivations of such an "anti genocide protester."

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Only if their anti-genocide protest consists of helping fascists into power. All other anti-genocide protesters are based in my book.

[+] [email protected] -40 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You know that the people saying that the democratic party has to earn their vote are for a large portion muslims who can not vote for a party that will continue funding a genocide right? I find it appalling that instead of calling the people who are currently funding the genocide fascist, you are actually calling those people that are protesting against the genocide fascist.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You know that the people saying that the democratic party has to earn their vote are for a large portion muslims who can not vote for a party that will continue funding a genocide right?

Oh, cool, so doing that is going to reduce US support for the ongoing genocide, right?

... right...?

I find it appalling that instead of calling the people who are currently funding the genocide fascist, you are actually calling those people that are protesting against the genocide fascist.

Cool. I find it appalling that choosing to usher in fascists who will do everything in their power to assist the genocide is considered a morally acceptable choice by some people.

[+] [email protected] -27 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Protestation and striking is the only way to achieve goals that are against the interests of the ruling class. You are trying to shame the only people actually doing anything worthwhile. Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You can tell they're white because they think demanding to see genocide's manager is more effective than voting against even more genocide happening.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Protestation and striking is the only way to achieve goals that are against the interests of the ruling class. You are trying to shame the only people actually doing anything worthwhile. Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.

Oh, cool, so we're in agreement, then, that the people saying stuff like "The Democrats have to EARN my vote against fascism!" are actually disingenuous accelerationists doing the old conservative routine of "Meet me in the middle" with no intention of ever actually cooperating or improving anyone's life.

[+] [email protected] -17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So… people asking the person who is supposed to represent them to meet them in the middle are facists? The ones asking the DNC to just, actually represent those it wants votes from?

Not the ones… actively supporting and furthering a genocide?

Ok. Yeah. Sure man. Because it’s clearly the thousands of people who should change and support the killing of their own, not the two who are supposed to represent them.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So… people asking the person who is supposed to represent them to meet them in the middle are facists?

My favorite part was late last year when so many Very Concerned Leftists were crying "IF THE DEMS CAME OUT IN FAVOR OF A CEASEFIRE, THEN I COULD SUPPORT THEM AGAINST THE LITERAL FASCISTS, OH WOE IS ME, I CANNOT DO SO UNTIL THEY AT LEAST DO THAT BARE MINIMUM OF EXPRESSING SUPPORT FOR A CEASEFIRE!"

And then when Biden began publicly supporting a ceasefire, they immediately changed their tack so they could continue supporting fascism in the US. Such is how it always goes with such creatures.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I mean, going above congress to still send arms to Israel while allowing them to continually sink negotiations for a ceasefire is not doing much to actually support it other than in name. They want actual action, not political theatre dems are known for. Like at the DNC Kamala starting by saying she will always support Israel. Then saying “oh and uh Palestine shouldn’t be completely murdered” to give the bare minimum. But hey, at least she did the bare minimum? Enough to allow some to still hold their nose and vote, though some will still hold out for better than that.

Even still, Green and PSL are what, 0.3% of the vote? Not even a third of a percent. You act like they are more to blame than the 47% republucan vote? So busy trying to turn progressives into an enemy, cuz you know, that’s what it’s gotta be right? Politics always has to be your team wins and everyone else is evil, cuz how else could you win as the lesser evil. lol. Fucking god. Let people push for the DNC to be more progressive, a third of a percent is a lot better than the 1.18% who vote libertarian. But having the DNC make people WANT to vote for them and get some of those ~40% who don’t vote would be good. A lot more good than 0.3% who will vote for someone more progressive.

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[+] [email protected] -7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I find it wild that you take that conclusion from what I said. The largest portion of Palestine protesters care about one thing, which is the quickest end to the ongoing genocide possible. In the US that means getting the government to stop funding said genocide. The means through which to do that are protesting and striking. Is there anything in this that screams accelerationist to you? I’m just telling you that most anti genocide protesters will not vote for the democratic party. However, those protesters are doing much more for Palestine than you are. So calling them fascist is indeed appalling.

Palestinians have fought this battle for decades. They are experienced with tactics to support their cause. They are not asking for you to vote, they are asking for you to organise your workplace to make sure that ties with Israel are being cut, and they are asking you to get on the streets to demand your government to stop supporting genocide. These are tactics that have historically been effective on this issue and other similar issues.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I find it wild that you take that conclusion from what I said.

Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.

Would you like to re-read the first line of the meme, or are you just spouting off without regard to what the topic actually is?

[+] [email protected] -6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Are you reading my actual words or are you just spewing nonsense with intent? Recognising that electorialism is not as effective as protestation does not mean support for accelerationism. It just means that the people protesting on the streets are doing more good than a dem voter and therefore it is completely backwards to call them fascists.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It just means that the people protesting on the streets are doing more good than a dem voter

If all they manage to is change the current administration's policy by protesting on the streets without ensuring that the current fascist threat doesn't worm its way back into power, they've done a great deal less good than those of us involved in electoral politics working to actually block the fascist who jerks off to genocide and will have immense power to hurry it along.

I have nothing but respect for pro-Palestine protesters who understand the power they wield as citizens and voters. I don't have any respect for pro-Palestine protesters who think that allowing fascism to win is in any way kosher.

[+] [email protected] -7 points 4 months ago (10 children)

If you actually spend that much time and energy in trying to get the democrats to win the election (I’m not counting online arguments), then I’d say your energy is better spent on protesting the system that is forcing people to choose between two fascist candidates. Because the people currently holding their dem votes because of the genocide are not changing their minds. It is part of being human to not vote for genocide, and forcing people to get rid of that humanity will mean a bleak future for the US in which nothing is too far or too much, as long as there is a scarier alternative.

I would say that if you see better chances in people changing their minds on voting for genocide than forcing the dems to adjust their policies then you are already in the scenario that is your nightmare, and that you should do everything to make sure that there comes an end to the vicious electoral system that forces the US into more right extremism every few years. Harris is supporting Trump by continuing the lies about the dangers of immigration and the need for such a rigid border control that it strips the humanity from everyone affected and forces children to be kept from their parents. How far will the dems move right next election if they win again? And how far right after that? They have already proven that they would rather fund genocide than getting a significant part of their voterbase back, which possibly means allowing Trump to win. They have shown time and time again that they do not actually fear a Trump win, or they would have adopted more popular positions (which are often leftist!).

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Then Thälmann was arrested and shot and killed in a death camp 11 years later...

[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Surprising nobody

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'd imagine Thälmann was pretty surprised...

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