this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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The poll is over, and the result is clear:

#FireFox users have very little interest for Chatbot integration into their browser.

I am very much aware that the people, who voted in this poll are hardly a representative sample, but more than 2.4K people is a better size than many "professional" opinion polls.

@mozilla & @firefox should take people, who actually care about their #browser choice, seriously.

I still seriously believe that #Mozilla's fate matters,

https://berlin.social/@mina/113102817500429735

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

A representative 300 sample would give a more accurate result than a biased 2.4k sample. Bigger number doesn't mean better results.

That said, I'm not sure how to get representation from certain subgroups of the population, like the "never engages with polls" or "lies specifically to fuck with your data" subgroups.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@Buddahriffic

Yes, It was easier to do truly representative polls, when people loved answering questions and everybody had a landline.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I remember a time when the phone or doorbell would ring and I would get excited to know who it was.

Now I seriously consider setting up a series of mirrors so that I can see who is at the door without giving up my ability to pretend like no one is home and my phone ringing causes an emotion somewhere between worry and rage.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@Buddahriffic

Same!

But isn't it a bit sad, we've all become so paranoic whilst at the same time being total oblivious to sharing lots of data, just because we want to know what the kitten did to the alligator?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

I'm just tired of people trying to sell me shit. Or beg. Like I know I'm not interested 3 words in to the spiel but still feel like an asshole if I just say no and close the door or hang up the phone.

Though I did eventually tell my phone provider to put me on their no call list for their internet marketing because I got tired of them trying to get me to switch to their less good internet package.

Hoping (but not holding my breath) that we, as a society, squash the whole data broker thing sometime relatively soon, though.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Okay someone has to say it.

The second F in Firefox is NOT capitalized.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

I'm more privy to "_fireFox" when declaring my browser.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

@Eiri

Oh fuck!

I'm way too used to CaMelCase, it seems.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I wish Mozilla would just strip all the extraneous junk from Firefox aside from what is truly necessary for web browsing. No crypto, no Pocket, no chatbot integration, nothing AI related, etc. Any and all additional features should be implemented via optional plugins. They could rename the project something like Phoenix or Firebird or something like that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is there crypto stuff in Firefox? Also I like the Pocket integration...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Not the currency

There is a crypto method you can call for random number generation

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I bet they wouldn't be so dependent on that google money if they stopped trying to chase every tech trend that pops up regardless of interest or popularity.

My perception of Firefox users is that most of us use Firefox for a reason, and thats usually some variation of moving away from big tech bullshit. I COULD be wrong but I certainly dont think so lol.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Where would the money come from then? donations? Or do you mean they should shrink, fire people and downscale.

I think it's too late for them to switch direction, not without a lot of people getting laid off. Though maybe that will ultimately happen if they finally end up bankrupt.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Or do you mean they should shrink, fire people, and downscale

I reckon I do. Google is like 80% of their funding or some shit, which hinders other search products while affecting user experience in other ways as well due to their influence. If they reined in the scope of their product, they could work on a lower budget which might allow them to work towards breaking free of that oversight. As I mentioned, I don't think most Firefox users want half this crap they're working on anyway, but they're caught in the tech "infinite growth" loop where they ""have"" to crank out bs features or else be considered irrelevant.

Just make a solid browser, work in solid mod support so I can make it my own, and maintain it. I have my own tools to use instead of pocket and whatever else, I don't need Mozilla to do that.

In terms of workers being let go, if they scale back they can at least let people go in a respectful manner instead of them just showing up to a sign on the door lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My worry is that the other 20% might actually come from other forms of partnerships and integrations not unlike what they probably had in mind with this, and that dropping Google might actually make them more dependent on seeking this kind of initiatives, not less.

I don't know how many people you actually need to maintain a browser. But if it's actually possible to do it without any kind of money from any of those sources in a way that can be sustained, then it would make more sense to make a fork (or alternative, like Ladybird) and just use that.

Like I said, I think it's too late for Mozilla to shift course, I don't expect they'll ever do that. At least not until they are forced by a competing project if it happens to become successful (or a similar huge wake up call that leaves them no alternative).

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I wish Mozilla would ask the end users what we want.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

@Uncle_Abbie

This is way a too revolutionary idea.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Asking mastodon users whether they'd choose AI over Privacy is like asking Elon Musk if he'd rather end poverty or buy another mega yacht.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don’t think you thought this one through!

To be the guy known for ending poverty for all time, having statues in every park on the planet? Or just another boat to park in your mega-garage of boats?

Easy choice.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, I dunno about that considering he promised to end world hunger if the UN could show him how the money was used. They did and he essentially told them to fuck off and donated it to himself instead: https://truthout.org/articles/musk-pledged-6b-to-solve-world-hunger-but-gave-it-to-his-own-foundation-instead/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We’re talking about two different things here.

Actually trying to end world hunger vs pushing a button and having it happen. The former is really hard and probably way beyond the means of any individual, no matter how wealthy. The fact that Elon promised to do it is only evidence of his extreme ego, not his ability nor his ethics (which his donation to himself calls into question).

If he could push a button and end world poverty at a nominal cost of $xxx billion, I think he would do it. But to actually put in the work over a lifelong project which has a high potential to fail? I don’t for a second believe he’s capable of that. But who is?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

He did not have to provide lifelong project and work on it. He just needed to donate his money and people in UN would have worked with that money. Even if it didn't work, he'd still have done a real great job by donating that much. And maybe we could have learn money is not the solution and we need to change approach.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As the "tech guy" who my family turns to for advice, I do not have a single family member other than my younger brother who has any interest in AI-assistance. My brother wants it to cheat in school.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

As the tech guy

My parents really like it - they like that they can say what they want to say and get it formatted for an email

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Can this poll be considered official ? I clicked the link and it looks like a Twitter poll or something.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@jangdonggun

Of course, it's not official.

I made this poll, as just a normal Fedi user.

It got more attention than I had anticipated, though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This post is confusing because I recently did take an official Firefox poll involving AI features (and others).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@JackbyDev

I'm sorry.

It was certainly never my intention to impose myself like an official channel or something like that.

I still welcome a debate here.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

I didn't think you were! You're fine lol. No apology necessary. ❤️

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why not just PWA to side bar extension support? If users want that side bar to a chatbot. Boom easy. If they don't or any other option its there too.

If they really want to support local ai specifically focus on the web3 API stuff for it.

Just be a web browser dammit lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Mozilla is desperate for any cash influx, AI in a browser is a hot sounding thing, right now. Perhaps they also hope they can leverage it for extra income.

I run a Nightly on one of my machines and it was weird seeing the option and I hope it does not make it or that it gets removed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean I'm desperate for them to get a cash influx too, just not really sure how this does that. Maybe set up for another preferred default deal like they have with Google? Maybe privacy focused option as SaaS offering like they do with their VPN, but you ahead of the curve instead after VPNs became so common you trip over them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

I do not know either. But with the recent Google, Anti-Trust ruling, there is a chance the Courts could force Google to break the deal they have with Mozilla in the future. I assume Google will appeal, but if that goes, so does 80-85% of Mozilla's income. Selling Mullvad's VPN is not going to cut it, so maybe they think they can cash in with "AI" somehow. Since you are right, maybe the best VPN's aren't dirt cheap but they are certainly not expensive in most Western countries. Besides, most users do not use VPNs. As of 2023, only about 31-33% of all internet users do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's just a plain integration with 3rd-party or self-hosted LLM service.

I'm not sure if Mozilla will make money from this feature in any way.

Have you read anything about it anywhere?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

It gets them users, which are needed for funding.

Like it or lump it, AI chat integration is a feature, and lots of users (those who aren't on a federated group discussion Firefox) will see it as an attractive feature. "It doesn't even have a chat bot" is something that will legitimately be said if its the only major browser without it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Maybe they can offer a LLM router and privacy proxy service like they do with VPNs?

Not who you asked speculating.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If you're using a VPN at the OS or browser level, just like any other traffic, your query to the LLM service will be routed via the VPN. That VPN could be any VPN of your choice - Firefox VPN, Mullvad, or Proton etc.

The only problem is that most LLMs require a profile/login to work with. In such cases, using a VPN will be useless, as the LLM server will know who you are.

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