this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2024
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

Did San Francisco sink into the bay? It looks like the map didn't include it, shame since that's probably the only place outside NYC that may be a different color.

EDIT:

Looks like someone else noticed it to and did a close up on the original. It shows SF is public transit and also shows that dc is missing on this map as well and also is more public transit then driving, so not just New York. You can also see it by borough in NY and Staten Island is cars but Hudson county NJ is public transit too.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 2 months ago (9 children)

I remember going to a job interview when I was younger. My dad dropped me off there on his way to work and then I took the bus home after my interview was done. It took my dad about 13 minutes to drive me to the interview and it took me TWO AND A HALF hours to take transit home. That includes bus travel time as well as time spent waiting for buses. I have also biked that route before and it takes about 25-30 minutes one-way.

The North American approach (because Canada is guilty too) to transit is to just throw a bunch of busses at the problem and act like they've "solved traffic". Meanwhile those buses are noisy, stinky, often unsafe things which spend most of their time stuck in traffic and are almost always late, if they even arrive at all. Most of the bus routes in my city stop at midnight so if you were out at the bar for the night and needed a way to get home then you better have funds for a cab or Uber or you're going to be stranded. (something something car-centric cities encourage drunk driving deaths somethingsomething)

Depending on the distance you need to travel - it's often faster to just walk. That's right, we have created a method of transportation that is actually slower than walking. And all the while our city planners, officials, and politicians pat themselves on the back for their "commitments to public transit".

And don't even get me started on how the war on unhoused people has lead to almost all bus stops being uncovered and with no seating. Raining? Fuck you! Snowing? Fuck you! 35c+ outside? Fuck you! Disabilities? Fuck you! What few covered stops I have seen usually have glass roofs so the sun still cooks you under them.

Maybe more people would use this method of transportation if it literally wasn't intentionally made to be as miserable and useless as possible.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm in a similar boat. 45m drive by car. 2h using PT. Including a 30 minute walk for the last bit to my office. This doesn't include waiting for busses or trains.

Realistically it'd be 2.5h without delays. And that's just one way. After that I'm expected to work for 8h and do it again.

So if i leave at 7am, +5h+8h +30minute lunch break I'd be home by ...8.30pm?

And that is hoping the connections line up after work... Cycling isn't really an option as there's no shower in the workplace. And knowing corps I'm pretty sure they won't appreciate people charging their electric bike battery in the office for free.

RIP work-life balance using PT. And I already feel like it's shit.

Though I do try to use the train when I can. Even though it ain't cheap either...

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I very seriously tried to be a no car household, I got to one car and I just walked a mile to work, rain or shine.

But my wife was a 6 minute drive from work, but due to criscrossing highways it was entirely unwalkable and like a 40 minute bus ride.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Not too far from me there's a family with three kids in the school literally across the street from their house. They take the bus to school. Literally directly across the street.

Why? Some kid got killed there back in the 1980s. And instead of making it safe for children to walk to school they have them take the bus to cross the street.

Why? Because that street is a state route, and doing anything to calm traffic is anathema to it being a "highway."

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Wait what? Don't people use the train in NY?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

NYC, yes. That's the yellow on the map.

Syracuse, no.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Aww shit it's tiny af

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nobody drives in New York, too much traffic

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Channeling Yogi Bera?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Trump has some plane to privatize and sell off national parks doesn't he?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm all for a significant reduction in vehicles commonly on the road. Apart from a monumental restructuring of the entirety of every major infrastructure in the United States, how would we go about effectively reducing the number of cars that are daily drivers?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Making public transport not absolute dogshit.

Like, I don't even mean "We need to extend it way out into the boonies" kind of thing. Something as simple as "Public transport that isn't so dogshit that the locals in major cities avoid it like the plague whenever possible" would go a long way towards reducing traffic congestion and car usage, even with suburbs and rural areas continuing to use cars excessively.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Every major US city should have a dense, high frequency grid of trams/subways within 3 miles of the city center. Then, a larger network of light rail/subways out another 3 miles for commuting and events traffic.

3-5 minute intervals is good enough, anything less frequent is meh. Over 15 is a joke.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

I think my closest bus stop is over 90 minutes between stops

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Make public transit a viable alternative.

My commute is 45 minutes by car, over 2 hours by public transit. We need massive investment into public transportation. More buses, more trains.

And, I'll get crucified by this I'm sure, but it's true: bicycle infrastructure is nice but a far far secondary goal. When we prioritize cycling over buses and trains, all we're doing is supporting upper middle class office workers and work-from-home recreational cyclists. It's not a sea change. It doesn't move the needle. Taking away a car lane to make a dedicated bus lane moves the needle. Taking away a car lane to make a bike lane does not, unless mass transit is already a viable option.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

When we prioritize cycling over buses and trains, all we're doing is supporting upper middle class office workers and work-from-home recreational cyclists.

And the young, and the able.

Tell a 40 year old single mother that she needs to bike home.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

God if I wouldn't kill to just be able to take a train like in Tokyo. The train times were usually 2 to 3 minutes apart from driving times on Google maps. Add the 10-15 minutes it'll take you to walk out of your station to your job and I'm all for It. I need the extra walking anyways to stretch my legs.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (4 children)

But, like, I already have a car for my daily commute and whatnot. I can’t see a way that a bus or similar would be faster. So why would I even consider using public transport?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

You are only looking at it from your own perspective. There are plenty of people who hate driving and would rather sit on a train and read a book. If all these people would get off the road because they take public transit then there would be less people on the road. So you wouldn’t be stuck in traffic as often. Also people who don’t own a car or can’t drive need to get to places as well. A society should provide good transport for these people as well.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Busses/trams can hit 0 red lights and not get stuck in traffic if they have their own lanes and transit priority signals

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One of the reasons I loved taking the train to work (yay, Portland MAX!) was that I didn't have to do the work to drive. I got on the train, snagged a seat (or stood on really busy days) and mentally punched out for 20 minutes. I could read a book, zone out, or make some notes on my thoughts.

At the end of the route, I'd hop off, walk two blocks and I was at a work. Reverse it to go home. It was a dream commute.

Driving Hwy 26 would have taken longer, and the sheer stress it caused was horrible. Always having to watch for someone deciding to dart lanes, merge badly, slow to a stop, shimmy forward, wait for a person to merge into the crawl. Commuting by car on any kind of busy road is horrible for your health.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

But a bus will also be stopping at other places that are not my destination.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

It doesn't have to be faster, just on a similar level. With a bus you don't have to worry about parking or other bad drivers, you can read a book or watch a show or get started on the day's work. That's worth a few extra minutes of travel time.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I can agree with this. If we moved to public transit through the utilization of railways and bus routes, would you say the cost of maintenance then moved to the Local and State governing bodies? One might conclude that roadwork costs would decrease positively with the reduction in traffic. There would also be higher maintenance costs, all offset by taxes.

What about the logistics of these operations?

The initial start-up costs?

The time?

The petty small suburban neighborhoods who claim buses increase homeless presence in their neighborhoods?

There would also need to be a fundamental cultural shift on the Professional level.

I know we don't really have all the answers. I just want to make sure we are aware that moving this needle is more than dropping a couple magic bus lines down in each major city, and running a railroad from Point A to B. We do need less cars. I wish I could walk to work. All of this requires an almost mind-boggling amount of preparation and then work to even get started.

Gotta be realistic, otherwise we'll never get anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

It's a lot of work, but it doesn't really require new thinking. We can absolutely throw resources at the problem. More buses, more trains, faster, safer, more reliable, more more more.

Making jobs closer to people is absolutely a societal shift, but we don't have to tackle that, at least not right away.

If we have a hundredfold increase in existing public transit schemes, we're already most of the way there to breaking cars' stranglehold on society. It's a solved problem, in an engineering sense. We know how to do it. We just don't know how to fund it...or to get the political will to do it.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

See there are some problems here.

I can't get to my doctor, or dentist, or grocery store, or pharmacy, or bowling alley, or friend's house, or closest pond, or my parents, or the airport without driving to each of those places.

The only way this gets solved is if there is a huge network of buses going to every neighborhood at tight intervals then each business Park and public attraction, etc at tight intervals. In a town of what 150k-200k?

Outside of metro areas, this doesn't work. At all.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

It can work well though. My city of about 60k is a great example.

  • As a city built out hundreds of years ago, it’s more centralized than most American cities, with a town square, offices, library, post office, etc in a tight walking radius.
  • As a bedroom community of a major city, we have a couple train stations.
  • As a city dedicated to quality of life and transit oriented growth, we grew the train station into a transit hub for buses, cycling, taxi, ride share, rail trail and micro mobility. It’s all surrounded by higher density housing - bigger apartment and condo complexes than elsewhere
  • As a city watching its business interests, that walkable town center is a center of shops and restaurants from many culture

As someone in a neighborhood of single family homes, I have frequent buses stopping at my corner. However I frequently walk to the town center, to see a movie, enjoy a restaurant, etc.

Yes, transit can work well in medium and even small towns, depending non how they’re set up and run

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

This is because a lot of well-built towns (or cities) have been bulldozed and rebuilt for cars instead of people. Or some built directly with only cars in mind (I wonder if car and oil companies had a role in this..., they did). This is why one of the key points (maybe the first step and the most important one) is to allow, invest in and develop better urban areas: allow two or more stories buildings, so not only areas are denser, thus it makes sense to serve them with transit, but also your doctor is allowed to have their office there; so your dentist; so are stores and pharmacies (that can only thrive in an environment where people live, not a suburban sprawl of cars and megastores). Cities built like this always have fast and efficient transit to the airports, to recreational areas (parks and your pond) and most likely to your parents.

Banning cars where you are FORCED to use a car to do anything doesn't make sense. Building fake "bike-lanes" that lead to nowhere in zero-density areas with no point of interest (a store, your doctor, a station...) also doesn't make sense.

What you can and should do is advocate for the abolishment of outdated zoning laws and the proposal of new transit projects. Change in those areas takes the most because it's like starting to cultivate strawberries on a desert.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Buses can go all of those places. A system of regional light rails in buses would probably work. Urban sprawl makes it difficult.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

If they had the funding.

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