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So, internet users may soon need to create accounts on sites they currently access for free. As Laporte worries, "We thought those cookie permission popups were bad, but things may be getting much worse" regarding being forced to hand over personal information just to browse sites.
Good way to kill your site, this is the one thing everyone hates, from the enthusiast to the casual user, making an useless account for 1 service that you barely use.
Slap Google SSO on that and you're good. Honestly that's worse than regular registration.
Yeah, if I see a "register an account on this random website" I roll my eyes or close it/back out. If I see "sign in via Google/fb" I recoil with a "fuck no".
On mobile it is pretty common to force the user to create an account before being able to use the app, so people may already be trained on it.
I dabble in marketing for my company. Let me just say advertisers don't need a damn cookie to know who you are to serve you ads. Even across multiple devices. There are so many methods.. literally over a dozen when cross referenced tells companies exactly who you are, even on vpn, even incognito.
Google regularly thinks I'm a robot and the ads are not even remotely relevant. There's no way they know who I am.
Which is why cookies, server-dependent adaptive design and many other things in the Web were big mistakes.
Gemini. Closing FF now.
Constantly being brainwashed to consume is one of the great evils of our time. Consumerism is bad for mental health and the environment. But advertising also creates many biases in content creation.
When was the last time you heard anything about bad effects of advertising? Not just superficial "stupid ad" but as a massive corrosive force on society? That is how much freedom of speech we have.
The great evil is that we keep going to places where we are shown ads, despite having a choice in theory. It's demoralizing.
I'm living mostly ad-free due to adblockers everywhere (except android) but most people don't know, can't do it or are brainwashed to think it's amoral to block ads. If more people would catch on adblocking would be made illegal. And either way my personal choice doesn't change what content is produced and how society is influenced. Personal responsibility doesn't solve this just as it doesn't climate change. Because advertising clearly does work.
Android is one of the easiest places to block ads.
Is it? Maybe. I managed to install the apps I need from f-droid and use firefox but it felt more difficult than on PC - where you just need to install an adblocker in your browser.
What ads are you trying to remove?
Firefox on android allows you to use uBlockOrigin. YoutubeRevanced is an excellent application patcher system that you can use to remove ads from YouTube, Twitch, Spotify, and many other. F-droid has some good resources.
If you're playing games with ads, it's a little harder. You probably need a piHole on your home network for that (they are super fun either way).
In general, yes, I guess it's a little harder to remove ads from your entire phone than it is to just remove them from a desktop web browser. Way better than Apple's options though.
Yeah basically the problem is the apps because mobile browser / mobile websites are less usable than desktop browser. I use NewPipe / PipePipe for youtube on android, hopefully it'll keep working. Right now I don't have any ads on android. But I'm only using very few apps. Thankfully the android ecosystem seems to be improving.
Both of you should look up AdGuard. It's the only adblocker I use and it works system-wide.
Yeah, large portions of economies are being driven by consumption. I feel like so much stuff is just landfill fodder.
Massive affects of advertising
I was hoping you might have some examples, I'm not sure.
The entire goal is to use money to change your behavior. They're inherently manipulative by definition. It's literally weaponized mass manipulation. There's no way to spin that as a positive effect.
If you think about it in terms of it's effects, advertising is the closest thing we have to mind control: companies are paying money to change the behavior of millions of people. Even without any concrete examples, you can easily see how dystopic it really is when you just think about the intention alone
Here's an example.
I was advertised camel smokes as a kid.
Everytime I relapse it's on camels. Camels are shitty and cheap.
I relapse and then switch to a brand that's not garbage. Then figure out again how to beat the addiction.
It's a substance use disorder directly caused by advertising. And cancer causing (so my physical environment).
Here's another mental illness that's very easy to trace back to advertising.
Eating disorders.
I think those are good examples, thanks.
Off topic: I don't smoke, but do generally hate smoking so much. I dislike the smell, and the affects on people around the user, like you said. I appreciate vaping. Not because of some hopeful idea that it would be safer, but cause I either can't smell it, or it smells like cotton candy. Who doesn't love the smell of cotton candy?
Also, props for quitting all the times you have. I'm probably majorly addicted to caffeine. Like smokers tell me they have one first thing in the morning, coffee is the first desire after I'm out of bed. I've already limited myself to two-ish cups/day, but I don't think that helped. Coffee also has negative effects on others...fortunately, my wife has coffee breath too :)
just to say, it's about 95% less full of harmful chemicals. even opponents admit that. vaping is safer. not safe but safer. and unlike the 200+ times i tried to quite over 45 years (hypnosis, gum, patch, groups, acupuncture, and a heap 'cold turkey), it took me just a few years to quit by first switching to vapes. and within a month of the switch, i felt better in every way. all the bs restrictions in place are so dumb.
Vaping has associated the smell of cotton candy with assholes who can't keep their smelly (and potentially dangerous) substance abuse away from unconsenting people, because they think no one will mind because it smells like cotton candy.
Edit: I legitimately prefer the smell of cigarettes at this point. At least no one's deluding themselves about the social acceptability of that.
Sorry I don't have any great sources on this. It's rather speculation because how could you research this scientifically? Even if you could, an experiment like that would actually be unethical! And who would fund this, there is no way to talk in mainstream about advertising without running against massive financial interests. There are some search results but most of those articles look like mental garbage.
My guess is that because we're constantly being told what to consume our minds work quite differently from what they would without advertising.
Our minds constantly have to resist intrusive advertising and psychological manipulation which means we constantly have to switch between and adversarial mindset and whatever content we were watching / reading. Or we become obedient and just "let the advertising wash through us". And advertising constantly has to find new ways to activate our emotions.
Just as massive is the effect on content produced, there is a "natural selection" that any content that helps sell advertisement is more successful on the market. It's not just that you can't piss off your advertiser but that generally you want the consumer to be in a certain mood - or that content producers who do this naturally are more successful and grow.
Then there are privacy concerns which reduce humans to machines and creates a powerful system that can and is abused for political control (public relations).
How can any of that not have massive societal impacts, since it's being done on a massive scale and is near ubiquitous? How can anyone assume these effects are not incredibly bad?
You could have a country banning advertising that has a kind of "content tax" that is funded publicly and administered independent from the government through separate elections. And that has strict mandates and distributes the money to news papers, websites, movies and video creators dependent on views - similar to music rights agencies. But none of this is even talked about. We've completely lost the ability to even think seriously about how to improve our society. I believe in large part this is due to advertising.
PS: There is a film called "Branded (2012)" about the "horrors of advertising".
My guess is that because we’re constantly being told what to consume our minds work quite differently from what they would without advertising.
Our minds constantly have to resist intrusive advertising and psychological manipulation.
I stopped quoting because you made many good points. I imagine we could find some supporting material for this basic idea. It seems like a safe idea to say people adapt to the environment they are in, including our thinking patterns based on what we take in and feed our minds (books, media, streaming, conversation, etc).
I wouldn't be eager for a new tax, but the creative problem solving and imagining new ways to do things is good.
Also, thanks for the movie mention.
I am not sure if advertising is a necessary evil. I guess I do not like being sold something constantly, and when I am in the market for anything, I will expose myself to advertising willingly, but it is, in way, a matter of consent. I can imagine that there is also people who like being sold things unsolicited, you know, they might say that they like discovering new products through advertisements.
Personally, while I don't mind being advertised to when I'm specifically looking for something, marketing materials aren't particularly useful about informing me whether something will be a good purchase. Marketing is pretty much just a big conflict of interest, where unethical ones will sometimes just outright lie about their product, and even the ethical ones will usually try to avoid talking about the negatives.
Review sites can be ok, but marketers game those, too, so it's hard to tell if a review is genuine or not (though the ones who aren't as good at it don't hide that their descriptions are basically just marketing copy).
Currently, I seek out negative customer reviews. Those can also be gamed, but attention mostly gets put towards the positive ones, so if the negative reviews are mostly about the delivery going badly, stuff that I don't care about, or very over the top about how horrible the product is, they can often be dismissed.
I think that the market is primed for a store that curates their products and is willing to tell shitty manufacturers to fuck off instead of taking kickbacks or ignoring bad products because they get a cut either way. A store whose goal isn't to just sell you something but to do everything they can to ensure you won't buy something you won't like.
people who like being sold things unsolicited...discovering new products...
That is a good point, I can definitely understand.
I do not like being sold something constantly
I must agree.
A short version rant about advertising: In my opinion, it causes either mental exhaustion or prevents people from reflecting. It's a constant and invasive distraction, robbing people of peace.
Why? Thinking of all the ways you can't go ten minutes without seeing ads, unless you're intentional. They started putting screens in gas pumps! Billboards on the roads, some that are giant LED screens (which I thought should be illegal), ads all over buildings, buses, in the subway, on the bench.
Back to websites: I personally think in their current form, they're so distracting, they're unreadable. I refuse to visit websites that require registration, and also leave if I can't get the simple/reader mode/ on edge/chrome. At least that way, its forced darkmode, and eliminates all the ads, social media links, everything but words. I can deal with some of the pictures not being shown. I wish I could find a browser that only displays websites in that stripped down mode.
