this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2024
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I've been happily Windows-free for about 5 years, but lately I need some Win-only software including a few games that don't work at all on Linux. My main questions:

  • How to avoid Windows messing with my Linux install? Having a separate PC is not possible for me right now. I'm considering uninstalling grub and instead selecting the boot device I want from UEFI, idk if this is advisable though.

  • I'm also interested in how to get a Windows install that's as minimal as possible: I don't want to log in to a Microsoft account, I don't want telemetry etc, I only want whatever is strictly required to make my system functional. The one thing I do want is Windows Defender cause ain't no way I'm dealing with an antivirus.

  • Should I go for Win 11 or stick to 10?

Any tips or experiences are welcome!

Ps: I know this information is probably all out there, but I thought a post in this community about it would be useful for others as well.

UPDATE: I ended up going with a regular old dual boot using Windows 10 iot LTSC - there's a few games I wanted to run and a driver as well so I chose to install directly on hardware as opposed to a VM. I created the install media using Ventoy, and UNPLUGGED EVERY OTHER DRIVE during installation except the one Windows was supposed to come on. Afterwards I had to boot in with a live Linux USB (the nice thing about Ventoy is that you can write multiple ISOs to your USB so it came in handy) to manually install rEFInd onto the original EFI partition that my Linux install uses, then I just had to set up the correct boot order in UEFI and everything is working. I also had to fuck around on the boot partition and with efibootmgr to remove all traces of grub so things don't get tangled up which was a bit scary but things are working perfectly now.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

The most painless way to dual-boot is to install something that's not Windows alongside something else that's not Windows.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Get a second pc and a kvm switch

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If by "these days" you mean a motherboard that supports UEFI, then it honestly doesn't matter anymore. Your board controls the boot order, and there isn't an MBR for Windows to mess with anymore. Just plan out your partitioning careful before hand, and if you plan on using a lot of files in both OS's, make a plain storage partition that is easily mounted under Windows (NTFS does not count).

Honestly, aside from a very scant number of apps or games, there isn't a real need to dual boot anymore. If you can't run something under Proton or Wine, having a Windows VM will get the job done.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

As for the second question: Windows 11 IoT LTSC has yet to be mentioned here - the only things that can stop you from using it are legality and convenience.

I'm not sure if W10 has an IoT LTSC version, but W10 LTSC does exist.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

If you insist on dual-boot: two separate physical drives.

Otherwise: use linux with a windows vm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

You can (at least the last time I ran an install) get both 10 and 11 installed without a Microsoft account, 11 just requires this process to do it. If you have an old ISO of 11 around it should allow a local account if you don't connect to the internet, but they apparently patched that out now.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Swappable hard drives

I have a ThinkPad with easy access to the hard drive. It's one screw, remove a small panel and slide out the hard drive, slide in a new hard drive and reinstall the panel and screw. It all takes about a minute.

I have a drive for my Linux setup and another for windows.

I gave up setting up dual boot setups because I'm not as skilled or capable and I've lost entire setups in the past due to updates and changes and it was constantly frustrating for me. So I figured that just swapping hard drives was the easiest for me. No configuration, no changes and neither OS can interfere with one another.

I use my Linux as my daily driver for everything and windows when I need something from windows. I only ever use windows maybe once a month or once every second month. I spend more time regularly updating windows than in actually using it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Having another PC with minimum requirements only for Windows?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

I put windows 11 live on a £20 USB drive, and it hasn't messed with my Linux install at all

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Getting a second drive just for windows I think is a good approach. If you were to do so, it's important that you remove all other drives while installing windows, otherwise the Windows installer will put its boot files into whatever existing EFI partition it finds.

Then using something like https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat you should be good to go with a relatively clean setup.

To have a local account, I use Rufus to setup the usb installer in a way that it automatically creates the local account, and it can also disable the secure boot and tpm requirements from the installer if you want. Though I think rufus is a windows program only. I know there's the "OOBE" approach for the local account, but I haven't done that before. That could be an option too

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Others have answered your dual-booting question pretty well. However, along the lines of "minimal" Windows, it's not generally recommended to fuck with the system as that can break things. There are scripts that can strip a lot of the problems, though. I can't remember any off the top of my head.

As for not requiring an account, I have old ISOs of Win11 and Win10 where the unplugging my ethernet cable trick gets me around signing into a Microsoft account. Not sure if it works on the ISO you get from Microsoft now, however. And if you have built-in WiFi, I think there's a way to disable it in the command prompt before you install.

Edit: Win10 is going to hit EOL in the near future. I am going to use it until then. It's got a lot fewer concerns (for me) than Win11, unless Microsoft keeps filtering Win11 shit into it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Is there a reason you need a dual book instance instead of a VM or even WINE?

Unless you need direct access to hardware and if you have enough RAM, you can probably avoid dual booting altogether.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I exhausted the WINE route, some games I want to play don't work with Proton no matter how much you tweak (the first time I'm running into this in a few years) as well as some additional software. There's also a driver I need to run that's technically available on Linux but it's a reverse engineered solution developed by one guy so who knows if it's gonna keep working.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Two physical drives. Install windows first in one, then Linux on the other. If you don't do this order windows boot manager will take over and you'll have to boot Linux from bios.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not using dual boot anymore, but when I did, I always selected the partition from BIOS, which was totally fine for me. Are there arguments against it?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Only an issue if you don't disable fast shutdown on Windows. A hibernated system might get surprised if another OS moves files about while it was asleep.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

You make windows sound like a hibernating beast.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Yep, dual disks with the Windows installation done first is how I did/do it. GRUB/systemd-boot worked just fine from then on, and I am not on Windows 11, so I didn't get hit with that fuck-up Microsoft did just a few days ago.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Will it maybe work if I just unplug my Linux drive during the Win install?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

One problem with that is that you will end up with two EFI partitions. This is not supported very well by anything, really, so you will run the risk of Windows messing with the wrong partition anyway.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'd recommend having the Linux drive unplugged during the windows installation. Windows, for some reason, will install the boot loader in an entirely different drive than what you selected. There's no question or prompt to prevent this. The only way to easily prevent this is to just have the one drive plugged in.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

My first line of investigation here would be virtualization. It will solve the "don't mess with my Linux install" problem and will let you use the windows apps you need at the same time as the Linux apps you normally use. Also VMs have all their other useful features like snapshots and portability.

I did this in the distant past and it was quite convenient having the VM instead of a dual boot.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, VMs are a good route since the OP didn't mention gaming.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I should have, gonna edit the post

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Good thinking, I'll definitely look into that. One caveat is I'm going to need a driver that's also Win-only so I'll have to see if that works in a VM.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

@friend_of_satan @recarsion yes, I’ve been using Windows 11 as a guest OS in VirtualBox for two months, after I switched to Linux as my main OS. I like it much more than dual booting.

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