this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024

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Patreon: adding Apple’s 30 percent tax is the price of staying in the App Store (www.theverge.com)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 119 points 2 months ago (8 children)

The "platform economy" is just another term for digital landlords.

Fuck 'em.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

patreon app store.

[+] [email protected] 95 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Yeah this is well overdue

[–] [email protected] 65 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, I actually think this policy is 100% correct and, if more services did this instead of eating the costs, we could have a real discussion about the harm caused by arbitrary fees.

It will likely result in Apple seeking a special deal with Patreon to avoid this mess though. It's really not a good look for Apple especially as they cater themselves to the creatives market.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago

Being as this is very similar to the apple epic legal fight that epic lost earlier this year, I doubt apple will make a deal. My understanding is that patreon can cave, choose to pay 27% commission, or make their own store.

Though skimming the news around epic's attempts to make a store, you "can" make a store in compliance with EU and UK laws, but apple made it kinda impossible to actually do and epic is fighting it in court again?

So patreon seems to have read the lay of things and said I guess we just have to make the best of a shitty situation and communicate everything to try to limit the pain.

It's almost like apple feels like they have the power to do whatever they want because they've created a market where they don't have competition...

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Until recently, apps were not even allowed to charge less outside their apps than on the app store or to link to outside stores.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (3 children)

We should thank the European Union for that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thanks European Union

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

They were allowed to charge less, just not mention or link to it in any way. Proton has been doing it for a while that the Apple in-app purchases are roughly 30% higher.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Is apple still blocking apps from telling users they can subscribe outside of the app store?

I.e A message on check out that says "You can save 30% if you subscribe directly the website. Apple charges a 30% processing fee for using Apple subscriptions, please just subscribe on the website."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (6 children)

So if I read that correctly, Apple wants a cut from Patreon's iOS app, not all Patreon creetors that have iOS apps. People still have the option of contributing to Patreon directly via their website, or even their mobile website.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Close. They want a cut from all users that use the Patreon IOS app. Since they can't quite stretch that far, they're insisting that Apple IAP functionality be built into the app and it be offered to the users. And as before, they can't tell the users that it's cheaper, or even available, elsewhere.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm okay with paying 30% where the return on investment is worth it. Both the Appstore and Google Play do literally nothing for you, except distribution, and payment processing. These really don't deserve to take such a big cut, and I don't really want to hear any more excuses in their favor

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

This is not about the App Store service's quality, this is about option. They could charge 50% for all I care, if we had the option to buy iOS apps from another store other than Apple's.

[+] [email protected] 40 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Dunno about Apple but Google does a very bad job of monitoring the Play Store. Outright malicious apps are one thing and deceiving apps are other. Latter is a very big problem. Low quality apps minced with in app purchases/subscriptions that are carbon copies of each other.

Google arguably does a worse job of curating the Play Store (sponsored results) and has a non existent support.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

It also is likely costs that are having to be done anyway because of web based sales or other distribution channels. So it’s even worse that Apple and Google act like they’re providing so much when they’re literally just preventing businesses from using their existing infrastructure.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

30% is more or less the industry standard. Whether it's a physical store or an online store. They almost all take a 30% cut.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

30% is a reasonably cut for transactions that take place in your store, the main complaint I see about Apple and their store and the cut they take is that they want 30% of any money that goes through any of their devices at all, not just their app store. Relevant here, they are charging the 30% fee for people's memberships to creators on the platform, a process that is wholly separate from Apple's ecosystem unless the user is using apple pay to pay for it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

30% is a reasonable cut for the distribution of software for which almost all revenue is marginal profit. When it's a transaction for services that cost money to provide (like Uber or online shopping) or a transfer of money on behalf of someone else (think Venmo or PayPal or just a regular banking app), a 30% cut of the whole transaction doesn't always make sense.

Apple recognizes this and doesn't take a 30% cut for those types of services. But they don't always categorize things correctly. Patreon is something like PayPal, whether the app owner takes a a small cut of each transaction, so paying 30% represents a huge cut, like 10x as much as they make.

Apple (and Google and Steam) are taking a software distribution cut for a service that more closely resembles payment processing, which is usually a 1-3% fee, not a 30% fee.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I mean, that's kinda exactly what I said, Apple taking a 30% cut of any transaction that occurs on their devices/on apps downloaded from their store makes no sense, though I will add that Patreon takes a 8 - 12% cut depending on how much support they give the creator. As far as Steam goes, to my knowledge they don't take a cut out of in game purchases, only purchases that occur strictly on their platform. (Also I don't think they charge everyone the 30%)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I mean, that's kinda exactly what I said

Yes, I'm agreeing with you and expanding on that, showing where the lines blur. Apple wants to get 30% of everything when it's only reasonable (and supported by historical practice) to get 30% of actual purchase of software. The history of the Apple App Store is an expansion beyond the original, relatively reasonable 30% cut on that narrow category, quietly spread out to a bunch of new categories that don't actually resemble the previous category.

Apple knows they can't take a 30% cut of every Uber fare or Doordash order or Amazon purchase of physical goods, and they don't try to. It's the categories in between where their policies start to look arbitrary.

And now Patreon in the crosshairs shows just how twisted it's gotten. Like I was saying, I see Patreon as something more like PayPal than, like, Netflix.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

and Steam

Exactly what is Steam doing now? AFAIK only charges fees sales of games through the Steam platform, from which developers get a LOT of value.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

The fee will only apply to memberships purchased on Patreon’s iOS app starting November 4th, 2024.

This isn't about that, Apple hasn't fully committed to those plans. This is about their existing rules which have applied to a long ass time.

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