this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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Canada to ban the Flipper Zero to stop surge in car thefts::The Canadian government plans to ban the Flipper Zero and similar devices after tagging them as tools thieves can use to steal cars.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

One question, has the Canadian police actually arrested people using the flipper to steal cars?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This is our government in a nutshell. Don't like guns? Ban them from licensed owners instead of working against smuggling or changing the license requirement from a PAL to an RPAL. Don't like gas cars? Ban them instead of working on public transit and infrastructure. Don't like the flipper zero? Ban it instead of either licensing purchase and use like a billion other radio devices that exist, or holding car manufacturers responsible for ass security practices.

Can't wait to find out what they don't like next, I wonder what they'll do? /s

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

People are cutting locks so we should ban long arm metal snips and angle grinders.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Go for the source, ban the locks

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Um.... You don't even need the flipper zero to steal a car. I'm not even sure it's strong enough to emulate the key.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Pretty sure you can't even use the Flipper in the way thieves are using cheap alibaba radio amplifiers on the proximity fobs that people keep near their front door...

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago

Might as well outlaw crowbars because they can be used to break into houses...

Fucking idiots who's microwaves blink midnight for decades think they can make meaningful decisions about tech.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That's all Trudeau has been good for, for years, attempting to appear to do something about a problem but never, never, ever, actually fixing anything, but also inconveniencing/ removing rights or making criminals out of ancillary people to the actual issue.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

“This here’s the Lockpocking Lawyer, and today we’re going to take a closer look at the Flipper Zero….”

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Oh Canada...

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago

Honestly, I am embarrassed with the whole "look like were doing something" shtick by my government. An expensive gathering of decision makers from various sectors, a National Summit, just to say: we are now gonna be soooo tough on crime and let's ban the toy we just saw on TikTok.

Car theft was a major problem before 2010 until engine immobilizers became mandatory since 2007 on all vehicles made in Canada

Then everyone got too comfortable. The regulatory bodies and car manufacturers were too focused pretending doing some work and publishing all the buzzword-of-the-day "accomplishments" they were doing while patting each others backs without explicitely requiring manufacturers to comply/implement immediately anything. Meanwhile, manufacturers were happy to integrate almost off-the-shelf "children's RC" car starter pack obfuscated through invisible/non-existent security and protected under dubious industrial secrets.

Obviously, criminals smelled the easy money. Starting around 2013 — mystery car unlocking device | 2015 — signal repeater car burglary, car thefts by relay attacks were known by automakers but ignored as one-offs, too technical, already dealt with by law enforcement to lets pretent it's not that big of a problem or leave it to the police. Meanwhile, insurance claim replacement vehicles are selling like hotcakes and it is "convenient" to ignore the problem.

The following years various reprogramming theft become known and finally CAN bus injection — new form of keyless car theft that works in under 2 minutes or in depth investigation by Dr. Ken Tindell, becomes so easy, so cheap and widely available that even kids uses them to gain Youtube/TikTok followers.

Car hacking was a becoming serious concern during the pandemic, but now it's simply ridiculous and as if current automaker included/provided anti-theft/GPS tracking were (un)knowingly made "defective".

Hence, everyone is playing catch up and blaming left and right on who is responsible for this in-slow-motion public safety disaster.

Brian Kingston, president and CEO of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, which includes Ford Motor Company of Canada, General Motors of Canada and Stellantis, said increasing the risk of prosecution is the most effective way to deter vehicle theft.

"And at the same time, providing more outbound inspection controls at the ports to prevent the flow of stolen vehicles to foreign markets by organized criminal organizations," he added.

New vehicle safety standards have been published (rushed?) recently. We will see if all the panic settles down like after 2007.

Moreover, the exponential prevalence of car theft also laid bare the incredibly poor and ineffective security at the various ports of Canada. Unsurprisingly, it has been a known constant devolution:

The devolution of port authorities in Canada has not been without debate over the past 70 years. This paper provides a brief introduction to the role of ports in Canada and then examines the history of port policy and devolution, concluding that past policies were considered to have failed due to their inability to respond to changing circumstances.

(Reposting my same reply for a similar thread about the Canadian Government banning the Flipper Zero, please check my post history for the other thread)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Good thing I ordered one a couple days ago

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This has made me think that I should order one too. Must be a good tool if it needs to be made illegal.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

You can break into thirty year old cars!

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That’s fucking bullshit wtf. This is exactly like bad gun reform that comes from someone who doesn’t know shit about the thing they are trying to reform

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Welcome to Canada. Turning dials that aren't connected to anything is the specialty of our "leaders".

[–] [email protected] 43 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Next, ban radio waves, because car companies are too damn dense to create a proper product lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I’m surprised no fobs use a time-based token to prevent replay attacks. Would make it a bit of a bitch to replace the battery, but hey-ho, tradeoffs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Challenges-reponse protocols are what's needed

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They use rolling codes that aren't susceptible to FlipperZero anyway. This is a dog and pony show.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

they use rolling codes

All of them? Source?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

It's been that way for a long time, it's just kinda the accepted way. The vehicle builders had seen what garage door systems problems came about from hard-switched or dip-switched codes and just went that way from the start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_keyless_system#Security

The newer vehicles have these always-on systems now, the owner doesn't have to press a specific button. So theives can amplify the fob signal that's constantly being emitted in the house and get the car to open, then program new keys once they're in the vehicle and drive away. But that has nothing to do with the Flipper, that's just a radio repeater.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Instead of a time based token they should have authentication. To start the car you need biometric or passcode or Bluetooth to connect and the fob.

For the life of me I don't understand why my phone has better security than my car.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Cause what's in the title is normal news. That's why. Dumbasses having power to decide for us that it's the tools to blame.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

More of an issue with the fob being to connect to a service to get the current time. Technically possible, but would add cost. And if that time is ever out of sync it just won’t work.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I can put an RTC in an Arduino for about $8. It keeps time accurately. If it gets out of sync, maybe a Bluetooth connection to let it do an NTP request through another device.

Cellular connectivity is not required.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

RTC’s are not inherently accurate. You have an RTC in your computer, but disconnect it from the internet for a year and it’s extremely unlikely it will be able to pass an OTP check.

Add to that the fact that RTCs run off power, means that the fob would need to actively pull from the battery 24/7. What happens when that battery voltage drops below the required power level? The time goes out of sync. Not to mention you need to change the battery at some point.

Adding Bluetooth would be a terrible idea. You’d then need to make sure the device can receive firmware updates, and we all know the reputation car companies have for updates to things.

Better option would be to receive the date and time from a transmission, be it FM or cell. And no, you wouldn’t have to pay for cell.

The problem comes when you’re in an area that doesn’t have these available, which is still quite possible in the US.

So we loop back to these not really being that viable. They will work most of the time, in most instances. But they’d be shooting themselves in the foot in certain places and with certain users.

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