this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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Canvas

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Hey everyone! Thanks for participating in Canvas. I wanted to make a thread to collect together suggestions people have that can be worked on before the next Canvas.

Feel free to also throw in suggestions for future Events we can build and run for the fediverse.

Ill be collecting suggestions together and making issues for them in the repository for myself or some other contributors to work on (the projects open source so anyones free to contribute! https://git.sc07.company/sc07/canvas Feel free to reach out to me and I can help get you set up with the codebase)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

One another game suggestion: The Turing Test, reversed.

Using LLM API, make people:

  1. Ask one thing and spot a human answering them;
  2. Answer one question and make another human believe they are an LLM.

Only these two rounds (or a text box + checkbox) per a session with a set delay, from a random user or a robot. The goal is counter to the current discourse of noticing LLMs being not humans, but the opposite – people being rewarded for acting like machines and spotting real people in the web poisoned by generative models. I don't know if scores are needed, just complimenting DMs maybe, because mastering tactics to break LLMs destroys the fun.

Besides only English input for the simplicity and a stop-list of words, it needs a balancing system that mixes fake and real inputs to cause no LLM-only hours across all timezones. To make it more interesting, there should be some additional prompts to LLM, like 'answer like an old lady' or 'answer like a nerd' to make LLM seem more humane.

Theming it after spies, zombies, whatever may help.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Could you make each pixel be made up of lots of smaller pixels? Maybe some sort if repeating pattern.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Or scale up the canvas periodically instead of adding blank space, so each old pixel becomes four new pixels.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I think it would be good to get some privacy and security people to work on the software. I think bots and duplicate accounts are a big issue but maybe you could try implementing some sort of new tech to solve it.

Overall it was a great experience. I just got annoyed at the Australians

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Have the cooldown time vary incrementally across the canvas—so there’s a “hot” end where people can make things quickly (and get overwritten quickly), and a “cool” end where designs take longer to draw but are more permanent.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

[Sorry for the double reply]
The "numbers" template style would be considerably more useful if the palette was itself numbered. At least, while using that style.

I've seen a lot of people struggling to find the template. I think that it deserves its own button.

The dark mode is amazing. Seriously, I want it for the next years. I don't think that it needs such a huge button though, when a simple half-black half-white sun icon would do the trick.

On desktop the palette has an awkward shape, as a narrow 32x1 strip that you need to roll back and forth if the window isn't maximised (fairly often, since people were doing other stuff while placing pixels). It would be great if it was a 4x8 somewhere at the right.

A lot of people (incl. myself) were struggling to tell a few colours apart. Mostly dark grey vs. black vs. navy blue and dark chocolate vs. maroon. So it might be sensible to tweak the palette itself for the next years. But overall their hue distribution was really good, in no moment I thought "damn, I need more colours".

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Extra editing features:

  • Colour picker (from canvas)
  • Show symbols/numbers on palette when using that template display style (e.g. label colour 23 so you don't have to count)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

You could middle click to color pick in the event

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

How would you do that on mobile

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I remember there was some equivalent action but dont know for sure what it was since I didnt use mobile

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Oh, really? I thought middle-click was for scrolling.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

scrolling the scroll wheel scrolls the map and clicking down on the wheel over a pixel color picks

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You mean holding the scroll-wheel and dragging moves around, yes? (And the scroll-wheel was for zooming.) I think I'd accidentally triggered the colour picker accidentally, since I did find that I often had black when I was expecting something else - now I know why!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Oh huh I didnt even realize you could pan like that, guess one of those has to be removed and moved to something else unless its detected between hold and tap

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Alpha-blending the color you're about to place means it's only a correct preview when the pixel it's over is already that color. A smaller or even circular cursor of the actual color would remain distinct from the canvas while indicating its effect more clearly.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Overloading middle-click as both scroll and color-select, when right-click goes unused, is a weird choice. Especially when empty pixels don't count as white. Early on, I had no idea why my chosen color changed seemingly at random. Later, I had to mindfully select white from the bottom palette, when every other color was picked from nearby.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I personally think the whois pixel function should also show the exact coordinates of the pixel, to make it easier to find the exact spot for templates.

Unless I missed something, the only way of doing it now was using the coordinates in the bottom left and then working from there.

That’s just a minor gripe anyway, the whole thing was great, thanks for organizing it!

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Maybe replace Googles Captcha with an alternative like hCaptcha.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Honestly they are both pretty bad for privacy as the way that they work is a black box. At least it isn't Cloudflare as it constantly thinks I am a bot

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

I agree. But at least hCaptchas don't block you if you use more aggressive privacy-enhancing plugins and they are fun to solve (and don't require you to find the traffic-light 20 times because your connection is a bit sus.)

And also yes, fuck Cloudflare.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The chat function was quite cumbersome in my experience (as someone without a matrix account); it was pretty slow to load as well.

Maybe such thing could be integrated into Lemmy itself somewhere in the future?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

First: Ta k you so much to grant and everyone else who made this project possible. I had a lot of fun, i think the problems made it even more sympathic.

One suggestion: maybe after expansion, the final canvas could be a 16:9 Format. This way its easier to find a frame for those who want to print it out. But maybe 2:1 like the actual canvas is fine too.

Im looking forward for next year :)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Not suggesting any big things here... All I propose is to have the options for toggling the canvas overlays (empty canvas, heat, template) directly within the canvas editing screen instead of putting it in the sidebar, kinda like Google Maps. I think the sidebar version would be preferred in mobiles, so you could make this desktop only.

Alternatively, you could allow the user to place pixels on the canvas even while the sidebar is opened, like the way it was for the first 48 hours of the event. Also ensure the right side of the color palette is not hidden by the sidebar.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

A really small canvas with a short time sounds cool

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Or a canvas that grows with random parts becoming read only

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Okay wild idea for a smaller canvas :

Have the canvas fade out to white a little every hour.

Eventually old pixels would die and people would either have to maintain or draw new stuff. It would make the timelapse more interesting and more animated by default.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If alts are really discouraged, please take steps to actually prevent them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I think a proof of work could work but it would be really bad for battery life. If someone had multiple tabs open there computer would start to crawl which would make the experience awful

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I would like a shorter timer for small instance. So bigger communities have a longer timer and small a shorter one. But i affraid it wont help at all.

Protected area as in minetest. It would help against grief.

Also for new account with 0 coms, just created during this canva event : restriction, second layer for drawing before approval...something like that ?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if we could do some sort of competition between instances? At the end we could all vote.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Great idea we can organize that between our instance instead of waiting for the next year. :D

I quickly drafted some rules :

  • the competitive instance chose together a subject
  • the pixel art must be original and not copy-pasted from web. we don't use a template : hosted and template desactivated.each instance will have their private layer. Once the event is over, our draw will be revealed.
  • 2-3 day to draw and send the result
  • 1 week for voting

I love drawing, i'm quite good at it, except perspective :)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Suggestions:

  • When getting rid of bots, undo their changes.
  • Assign the pixel timer based also on IP, not just account. That should discourage people who used multiple accounts just to have more pixels.
  • Don't let freshly created accounts to place pixels. They compound with both issues above.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If you undo the changes dome by a bot it could cause chaos. It is better to let users know it needs to be fixed.

Also you could do some sort of proof of work to make it unfeasible to have a bunch of alts.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

IPs should never be used to moderate, they are shared across too many people. Often multiple neighborhoods will share an IP.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Same with people who use VPN per default.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

I do not like the idea of using IPs for that either, but since it's only for the timing instead of locking people out of the service, it's less of a concern.

And as db0 said IPs are far from optimal but they're the best thing that "we" [actually the devs] have available. If you have some alternative way to discourage simultaneous multi-accounting, by all means, suggest it here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

That's the closest thing we have though. The alternative is just people using alts, and at that point might as well not have limits. There can be ways to add exceptions if needed.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Is there a history of the changes stored? I'd love to watch an accelerated animation of the creation process.

I did not find a way to simply "view the entire canvas & download a snapshot," which would be nice.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

There are time lapses, and all the data has been released.

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