this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Moral choice in most games is pretty ridiculous anyway. In the vast majority of video games, the actions of play are already about doing unethical things (breaking into places you shouldn't be, killing, looting, holding political office, etc) and the story or theming is just there to provide moral cover for why what you are doing is Good Actually ™️. Americans are great at justifying violence because our media trains us in doing it everyday.

If you tried to hold people to IRL standards of ethical behavior, the entire FPS genre would vanish. And that's why these things don't work well in games. You can't punish bad behavior because it would feel anti-player. You also can't reward bad behavior , even though that's realistic, because it offends the miscalibrated normie sense of justice. And simulating the small-scale social consequences of immorality would also be immensely difficult and anti-fun.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There are some games where going out of your way to avoid resorting to violence is rewarded.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

In most of those, the alternatives are pretty weak and poorly supported. Also, violence isn't the only kind of immorality, that is very much my point. And also... you have to name one that isn't Undertale...

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I don’t let machines fuck with my emotions. I know what they’re doing, give an option to slap the dog.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I’m playing a somewhat witty dating sim game that does it a better way.

Your goal is to prevent five girls from getting killed. You can accomplish this by being nice, and sweet, and doing good things. But it’s hard, and there are also much easier prompts to use “bad points” to achieve that positive end of saving good people from bad situations. Manipulation, Deception, Violence being examples.

I imagine old-style Bioshock approach to the game would be “Find girl, she invites you over; immediately stab her and loot her house.”

The game is called Hush Hush.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

There are many ways of being evil, petting the dog does not make a truly evil character less evil.

A lot of real life evil people actually like animals at least when it suits them in my experience.

A bit off topic but there are games where you are absolutely evil but it's not easily recognizable. For example factorio.

Most people consider themselves not evil.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

A lot of real life evil people actually like animals at least when it suits them in my experience.

It's really frustrating as someone who just doesn't care for dogs. I'm seen as some heartless monster, but there are literal monsters are out there with dogs too... Idk about globally, but the US has had some "recent" (10-15 years ago) explosion of obsession with dogs.

Old man voice: back in my day the womenfolk found dogs gross, now they like dogs more than anything else in the world! :P

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

You can be evil and still stop to pat and love dogs.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I never had the desire to play that kind of character until recently and my god does Bethesda fail horribly at allowing that kind of character... Even in Skyrim where there's guilds for theft and assassination, I never felt truly evil or bad, just kind of a jerk with the occasional dumb response.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Too many games I've seen conflate being evil with being a jerk. Few games let you play the 'long game' where you are specifically nice and cooperative to deceive and manipulate. I think this partly due to decisions being made modular and point to point. Your overall morality then is calculated as some form of average of all the decisions you made. Mass effect series comes to mind.

But if you want to play as a scheming villain the opposite should be the case: you set your primary long term goal (eg taking over a country or institution) and then your actions are chosen in the vein of that goal. And those actions might in isolation actually be seen as beneficial or benign. But you ultimately do them to gain trust or deceive.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The problem is that people don't treat you differently for being evil. Yeah, you might have hitsquads coming after you, maybe a companion or two won't follow you. But the same happens to good characters. There's absolutely no weight to your actions. You can literally slaughter half the wasteland in broad daylight and people will still talk to you as if you're just a typical person. I always end up having evil karma because I steal everything not nailed down and yet I'm still considered a hero by everybody. It's only gotten worse in games like Fallout 4.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (2 children)

People don't treat you differently for any reason. Oh you're the Dragonborn, leader of three guilds, an obvious vampire, bedecked in legendary artifacts from a half-dozen Daedric lords, and savior of the Nords? I bet you don't spend much time in the Cloud District though.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

With starfield it's kinda hilarious. I made it a point to just be a murder hobo (get a mod that alters bounties so there needs to be a living witness) and choose all the obviously bad choices and yet random UC security will have their preset wild lines where they say "I hear you've been cleaning up bad guys out there, well done have some money." Lol

...like no? I'm the danger! I'm the one who knocks!

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[–] [email protected] 87 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (20 children)

I suppose it would be an extreme game design challenge, but I would play more evil characters if I didn't have to play as "stupid evil".

I want to be a manipulative monster who preys on trust. Of course I'm not going to punch the begger in broad daylight in front of everyone. I want chat him up, gain his trust, and give him a drink laced with medical alcohol so I can then steal his pocket change.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You could make real money in Eve doing that.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

EVE has fantastic stories, but I'd never want to play it myself. The people who did stuff like the bank scam put in so much time in front of spreadsheets it was like a real job.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What you want is Knights of the Old Republic, best game to play an evil character ever

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Endgame yes, but a lot of the early game choices were like

[1] Pet the puppy

[2] Throw the puppy off a bridge

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Not at all. One example is the Romeo and Juliet quest, as a good character you can help their families understand each other, they get together and everyone is happy. On the evil side you can make everyone go to war, even the couple, by conspiring, you watch them kill each other then loot everything! Just one of the quests I think the evil side is way more interesting than the good one.

The vast majority of evil paths is like that in KotOR

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Minecraft survival server with friends :)))

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

Or start a hardcore raiding wow guild.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I might be bad guy... but I'm not bad guy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

And here I am, playing a guy who kicks dogs, uppercuts babies, and litters. Something fun being so utterly despicable in a game.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Sometimes I just can't bring myself to be the bad guy, because either you get the worst possible ending (sorry, can't suspend my disbelief enough to believe bad people actually get bad ends) or it just goes over the top.

For instance, in one franchise you can be bad, but it's mostly rude comments, insults, maybe a couple betrayals here and there.... Then BOOM surprise you just shot a kid in the back of the head.

I'm all for being a bad guy but it has to be a well-written and iltelligent bad guy that actually rivals the good version, not just stupidly plodding through the worst possible choice "because a bad guy wouldn't care that he just crippled his fleet and lost the final battle, because he got mad that one of the admirals called him a hothead and crashed his ship into theirs"

Who am I kidding, the moment I betray someone I like, I'm going to bail and go back to being a good guy

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Even in mass effect? Evil shepherd has some of the best dialogue. I never got as much satisfaction from a game when I let all the council dweebs die for being idiots.

RDR2 as well, some of the rude comments Arthur says are hilarious. And you're a rough and tough cowboy so it kinda fits.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Mass effect was actually one of the first games that came to mind.

Yes, BadShep has some great moments, and some of the decisions actually feel good, but sometimes it just gets too over the top or hurts someone I care about.

Even if I didn't abandon every evil playthrough, I would never have been able to [REDACTED] on tuchanka. Had to be him. Someone else might have gotten it wrong. 😭

And my Arthur is gruff but good-natured, has 0 time for idiots, and won't hesitate to shoot someone in his way, while at the same time will go well out of his way to help someone truly in need.

So insults abound, but he still helps that woman get back to emerald ranch after she twists her ankle. He shoots anyone that's got something he needs, but drops everything to find a missing person.

I like games where I can mix and match but still get good endings.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago
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