this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024
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Average CSS (lemm.ee)
submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I am not allowed to credit the site that has this disaster. Its owner said "Nobody should see that"

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I am very, very surprised about the competence of the commenters here. I have had many discussions on reddit about the advantages of meaningful instead of presentational class-naming and you're normally met with great resistance, especially with users of frameworks like Bootstrap and Tailwind.

Here, everyone seems to either 'get it' or is willing to hear why classes like .lime are bad. Very cool.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

It's not too surprising. Consider the sort of person who would have abandoned reddit for Lemmy during the APIcolypse last year.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Frameworks like bootstrap are a cancer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

good for quick and dirty small projects tho...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Ikr, like I don't need a full feature full stack framework... I just want my tech demo to not look like it was made in the 80s without spending hours. (I'm mostly a backend dev)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It is like fentanyl don't do it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

It is like femtanyl ~~don't~~ do it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

No.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

People that advocate for presentation naming haven't endured a major company rebrand.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

This guy has PTSD from working at "X".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

No! I wanted orange!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I'm appalled that classes representing visual styles are still a thing. I thought everyone already figured that it was a bad idea back in bootstrap days. But then I recently had an opportunity to work on project that uses Vuetify and saw quite long poems about flexboxes in class names...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aren't classes in CSS supposed to represent visual styles? What else could they be for?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Pretty sure they're referring to class names describing the visual style being applied, rather than what that class represents semantically.

E.g. .red-bold vs. .error-text

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Oh, that makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"Figured it was a bad idea" actually means that some people were against it because they believed semantic class names were the solution, I was one of them. This was purely ideological, it wasn't based on practical experience because everyone knew maintaining CSS was a bitch. Heck, starting a new project with the semantic CSS approach was a bitch because if you didn't spend 2 months planning ahead you'd end up with soup that was turning sour before it ever left the stove.

Bootstrap and the likes were born out of the issues the semantic approach had, and their success and numbers are a testimony to how real the issue was, and I say this as someone who never used and despised bootstrap. Maintaining semantic CSS was hard, starting was hard, the only thing that approach had going for it was this idea that you were using CSS the way it was meant to be used, it had nothing to do with the practicality. Sure, your html becomes prettier to look at, but what good is that when your clean html is just hiding the monstrosity of your CSS file? Your clean html was supposed to be beneficial to the developer experience, but it never succeeded in doing that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There's nothing hard about semantic naming. Especially when you're separating your elements into components and use SCSS or some other pre-processor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Either you understand that the consensus is that naming things is hard and you just want to elevate yourself above everyone else by arguing against it, or you're unaware that it is the consensus, in which case your opinion doesn't really matter because you most likely underestimate the issue.

It's such a truism that I'd suggest googling "naming things is hard*.

There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things. -- Phil Karlton

https://www.namingthings.co/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And then came Tailwind…

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I know! What a mistake of a framework. Glad my colleagues drummed it out of me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I gave it a chance for a tiny project but even then it was painful.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, there's not exactly a ~~class~~ training you have to take before writing CSS, so everyone starting out with it gets to make all those same mistakes for themselves before they know how to use classes sensibly. I myself am some backend guy, who has to write CSS far too often.

It certainly also does not help that various CSS frameworks out there do exactly that...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

It certainly also does not help that various CSS frameworks out there do exactly that…

Bootstrap (as of v5) being one of them. div class="d-flex gap-2 my-3 align-items-center flex-nowrap justify-content-between

I was annoyed at this at first, but I’ve since noticed that I write hardly any CSS any more, because most rules really are “just add some space, vertically align, be red”.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yeah, the reason why people deride it, is because it's practically equivalent to:

div style="flex: 1; gap: 2em; margin-top: 3em; margin-bottom: 3em; ..."

I had to look up what these do, so they might not be precisely correct translations, but hopefully, you get the idea. It's mostly like using inline styles, and like not using classes.

In some scenarios, these frameworks might simplify certain things, like how my applies two CSS rules. And they reduce the visual clutter of inline styling somewhat.

But overall, it feels like people are dissatisfied with semantic classes, but don't want to lead the discussion for using inline styles, so they grab these CSS frameworks to pretend that they're not using inline styles.

It is fundamentally a difficult discussion to lead, because inline styles feel great, while you're writing them. They're less great for maintenance.
But semantic classes definitely have long-term problems, too.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Could argue here that you're still writing CSS, just cross compiling to it from Bootstrap shortcuts.

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