They’ll do anything not to build EVs /s
this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024
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Surely an oven that inherently steams everything it cooks is quite a different tool to a regular oven? It probably works well with breads and similar products, though, so I guess that'd work as a pizza oven
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Add a hydrogen generator and all you need is water and electricity to make the hydrogen. You don't even have to transport it.
I'd much rather transport a bottle of hydrogen to a cookout than an electrolyzer. What if a power outlet isn't available?
And I’d rather transport a cheap and widely available propane tank instead of an ultra high pressure hydrogen canister that can only be refilled at 3 places in the entire state.
Yes, but imagine a world where propane and other fossil fuels are no longer available. You're going to lug a big battery around for an electric grill instead?
For what it's worth hydrogen stations currently dispense at 10,000psi, which is considered "medium" pressure in the field. "Ultra high" pressure is considered an order of magnitude greater.
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Hydrogen is very difficult to bottle. It tends to just slip out of anything you put it in because of how small the atoms are.
And also incredibly low density. So your bottle would likely be on a trailer.
If hydrogen is so difficult to bottle then how are there self-serve refuelling stations in operation?
Yes, there is a volumetric penalty, but it's not that bad. At 10,000psi a 1 gallon hydrogen bottle has roughly the same energy as a 1lb bottle of liquid propane for camping.
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Fun project! But replacing gas with hydrogen seems really tricky. Hydrogen is much harder to transport without leaks because it's such a tiny molecule. Electric seems better than trying to still burn hydrogen.
The best way to store and transport hydrogen is to combine it with carbon so that it becomes a convenient liquid fuel. As a bonus, then you don't even need fuel cells to make electricity from it, but can instead simply burn it in something called an "internal combustion engine"
Nah, combustion engine is just one step up from the steam engine, such a wasteful technology, should long be in a museum.
First thing i think about in using a hydrogen-carbon fuel, is fuel cell (no better word for "Brennstoffzelle"?) to create electricity. Next up a steam turbine.
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This is just synthetic fossil fuel with extra steps. Lol.
Exactly.
Hydrogen is mostly a greenwashing scam; it isn't any better than what we already have.
Tons of experts believe the only way hydrogen based transportation makes sense is by using it to fuel heavy transport right at the source instead of trying to transport it via pipeline.
Yup. Produce it with wind or solar at the warehouse, then load it onto trucks or forklifts or whatever. It's a nice little closed ecosystem.
As Toyota has demonstrated (and speaking from my own experience), it's not that tricky. As for cooking with the stuff, sometimes you just need portability and/or a flame. Electric is a poor choice in those cases.
Just need to waste a ton of energy extracting it then liquifying it then hoping that transport doesn't face any issues (and I mean, considering our track record with petrol which doesn't corrode everything it touches I sure as hell wouldn't worry about it [/s if it wasn't clear]) and then fill up your personal car that could have simply been powered by electricity from the beginning...
Also, ever heard of energy density? Because hydrogen won't win prizes on that front!
Wait wait wait, you're telling me that taking electricity, sending it along wires, generating hydrogen with it via hydrolysis, packaging it, compressing it to an extreme degree, physically transporting it, putting it in pumps, pumping it into your car, then doing reverse hydrolysis to charge a battery that then powers an electric motor...
Is less efficient than sending electricity along some wires to your car battery, to then drive an electric motor?
I'm shocked!
Portability is hard for hydrogen since you hadn't liquify it without huge pressures and cryogenic temps, so you need big tanks. But cooking stoves does seem like a pretty good use case.
Compress it to 10,000psi and it gets portable enough.
As I said, huge pressures. You'll need super heavy or super exotic tanks.
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I think the experts who believes in this technology know a bit more than you and me who only read a few wiki pages.
If money is going into this, they also have a believable plan. But big oil certainly want you to think otherwise.
That’s an appeal to authority fallacy if I’ve ever seen one.
They’re doing proof of concepts, not mass production. They’re at best answering is it possible, not is it a viable alternative.
Huh? It's big oil and the like who are pushing hydrogen over electricity.
And the problem with hydrogen is largely to do with the laws of physics, so it's unlikely to change soon.
I don't understand this suspicion. It's easier to burn fossil fuels for electricity than to reform them into hydrogen.
But they can still sell hydrogen, they can't really sell solar panels. Even encouraging people to keep burning things (like hydrogen) benefits gas since it slows down electric alternatives to gas heating.
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