this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2024
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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I have tried Linux as a DD on and off for years but about a year ago I decided to commit to it no matter the cost. First with Mint, then Ubuntu and a few others sprinkled in briefly. Both are "mainstream" "beginner friendly" distros, right? I don't want anything too advanced, right?

Well, ubuntu recently updated and it broke my second monitor (Ubuntu detected it but the monitor had "no signal"). After trying to fix it for a week, I decided to wipe it and reinstall. No luck. I tried a few other distros that had the same issue and I started to wonder if it was a hardware issue but I tried a Windows PC and the monitor worked no problem.

Finally, just to see what would happen I tried a distro very very different than what I'm used to: Fedora (Kinoite). And not only did everything "just work" flawlessly, but it's so much faster and more polished than I ever knew Linux to be!

Credit where it's due, a lot of the polish is due to KDE plasma. I'd never strayed from Gnome because I'm not an expert and people recommend GNOME to Linux newbies because it's "simple" and "customizable" but WOW is KDE SO MUCH SIMPLER AND STILL CUSTOMIZEABLE. Gnome is only "simple" in that it doesn't allow you to do much via the GUI. With Fedora Kinode I think I needed to use the terminal maybe once during setup? With other distros I was constantly needed to use the terminal (yes its helped me learn Linux but that curve is STEEP).

The atomic updates are fantastic too. I have not crashed once in the two weeks of setup whereas before I would have a crash maybe 1-2 times per week.

I am FULLY prepared for the responses demanding to know what I did to make it crash and telling me how I was using it wrong blah blah blah but let me tell you, if you are experienced with Windows but want to learn Linux and getting frustrated by all the "beginner" distros that get recommended, do yourself a favor and try Fedora Kinoite!

edit: i am DYING at the number of "you're using it wrong" comments here. never change people.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've been having a tough time with it. Maybe I'm unlucky with my hardware and setup. Spend hours this week recovering from a black screen after upgrading to F40. Issue with Plymouth + Nvidia + Luks at boot. Also getting Nvidia to work on F39, my first install. Secondary computer (laptop) macbook 2017, keyboard doesn't work with Fedora compared to Linux Mint.

I'd recommend Linux Mint for beginners after my experiences. imho

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Nvidia can be a bitch. And it's unfortunate that Fedora isn't particularly well known for handling that graciously.

I’d recommend Linux Mint for beginners after my experiences.

Absolutely fair. FWIW, if you ever feel like giving Fedora another chance, consider doing it through its derivative (i.e. Bazzite).

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Never have I ever successfully updated a fedora system. It was always a reinstall.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I consider myself long time noob ;)

Fedora for me because it's rock solid, has cutting edge software, excellent documentation.

I,ve been updating the same installation more than 15 times i think.

Against: selinux is often overlooked when following guides written for Debian / ubuntu. So sometimes you pull out your hair.

On the other hand. Podman is supposedly the new favorite kid on the block. Fedora is on the front here

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There was a time when I thought about switching to Fedora when I ditch Windows in 2025, but the frequent release schedule of Fedora has made me worried if those updates risk breaking my setup.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Fedora sounds like a redditor distro. That's why I never recommend it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Fedora has no selling point at all besides being similar to RHEL.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (12 children)

How about

  • SELinux that's pre-configured and on enforcing mode OOTB
  • Its whole Atomic branch
  • Being the first distro on which new technologies are introduced

All of which are unique.

To be frank, Fedora's unique selling points are very compelling. I wonder if you could name a distro with even more impressive USPs.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

What's with openSUSE Tumbleweed?

Do you think its USPs are more compelling? If so, consider naming those USPs in order for them to be evaluated.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I tried a bunch on distros when I switched to Linux full time. Currently I have OpenSUSE in my laptop but I don’t think that will last too much longer. I’ve been running Fedora on my main machine for months now and it makes a lot of my other distros just feel clunky.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I think Fedora is solid choice. I will tell you why I do not recommend it to new users myself.

1 - Fedora is very focused on being non-commercial ( see my other comments on its history ). This leads them to avoid useful software like codecs that I think new users will expect out of the box

2a- the support cycle is fairly short and whole release upgrades are required

2b - Fedora is typically an early adopter of new tech. It is not “bleeding edge” but it may be moreso than new users need.

3 - it is does not really target new users like say Mint does though it does target GUI use

4 - I do not use it myself anymore and I do not like to recommend what I do not use. What I do use has a reputation for not being new user appropriate ( not sure I agree ).

Nothing wrong with Fedora though in my view. I would never discourage anybody from trying it.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

Long-time Fedora user here. I do not think Fedora is noob friendly at all.

  • Their installer is awful
  • Their spins are really well hidden for people who don't know they exist
  • The Nvidia drivers can't be installed via the GUI
  • There's no "third party drivers" tool at all
  • The regular Flathub repo is not the default and their own repo is absolutely useless
  • AMD/Intel GPUs lack hardware acceleration for H264 and H265 out of the box, adding them requires the console
  • Their packages are consistently named differently than their Ubuntu/Debian counterpart

I really like Fedora for their newish packages without breaking constantly. I still would not recommend it for beginners.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

• The majority of useful packages are hidden in RPM Fusion

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What do you mean the installer is awful? I have found it quite straightforward. Select the disc, your keyboard setup, timezone and then it install itself..

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It caters to a middle ground that barely exists, meaning it doesn't have enough options for a power user and too many for a newcomer.

For example, a newcomer doesn't know what a root account is and doesn't have to care, yet they have to choose if they want to enable or disable the account. They can also remove their administrator privileges without knowing what it means for them. I get asked what a root account is every time somebody around me tries to install Fedora.

I recommend spinning up a Ubuntu 24.04 VM and taking a look at their installer.

They have a clear structure on how to install Ubuntu step by step while Fedora presents you everything at once. They properly hide the advanced stuff and only show it when asked for it. They have clear toggles for third party software right at the installer and explain what they do. Fedora doesn't even give you the option to install H264 codecs or Nvidia drivers.

It also looks a lot cleaner and doesn't overload people with too much info on a single screen. And yet it can still do stuff like automated installing and has active directory integration out of the box, where the Fedora installer miserably fails for a "Workstation" distro.

The Fedora installer works, but it doesn't do much more than that and the others do it better in many areas.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Completely agree. I mean, I'm what you'd call a power user, and I still opt for using a flatpak for my browser (Floorp) because codecs are a pain.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Long story short, Fedora is RedHat, RedHat is mostly aimed at companies, so most random users haven't encountered it. I used Fedora for a few months, a Friend of mine was very passionate about it, I personally didn't find anything special about it and disliked rpm at the time, so I ended up switching back to Mint (I think it's what I was using at the time).

So, long story short, people are not recommending it because they're not using it, but I know a few people who use it and swear by it, so it looks like you're on the road to join their club, and don't let anyone tell you you should be using any other distro, as long as you find something that works for you, that's what matters.

That being said have you tried Kubuntu? I feel lots of what you had issues with could be the old GNOME vs KDE argument.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

“Fedora is Red Hat, Red Hat is mostly aimed at companies”.

I said this in another comment but Red Hat Linux used to target both the community and commercial interests. Fedora was founded to be an explicitly community distribution that was NOT aimed at companies. Red Hat then created Red Hat Enterprise Linux ( RHEL ) which absolutely targets companies ( for money ). The whole point of founding the Fedora project was for it not to target companies.

Fedora release often, has short support cycles, and is hostile to commercial software. It would be a terrible choice for a business in my view. It is a leading community distribution though.

The top foundational distros that all the others are based on are Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, and Arch ( and maybe SUSE — I am not European ).

In my view, Ubuntu’s best days are behind it. Fedora has never looked so good.

I use one of the other distros above but I used Fedora long ago and it treated me well. I think it is a solid choice. My impression has been that it is gaining in popularity again.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I would not encourage anyone to join the EL universe as I don't consider it as stable as others.

TLDR; Redhat's being absorbed into IBM and they don't care about RHEL. RHEL (in my view) is dying a slow death. Without RHEL, there is no Fedora or Centos Stream. There'd also be no Rocky or Alma, as things currently stand.

(Although if that happened, I'd not be surprised if the users of Fedora merged with Rocky and Alma in some form of new and fully independent distro - we've already seen how well such disasters can be worked around)

Longer reasoning: Redhat, in my view, have made some unpredictable and frankly terrible decisions over the past few years with RHEL which have caused a great deal of concern in the business sector about its stability as a product. (Prematurely ending Centos 8 six years early, paywalling the source code, and more recent anti-rebuilder steps. They also treated the community team working for Centos appallingly throughout these leading to many resignations.) Further more, these were communicated without warning or consultation and have sometimes come across as petty and spiteful, rather than as professional business decisions.

IBM bought Redhat shortly before this happened, mostly for its cloud services. It seems from the outside that RHEL is being squeezed. There have been two major rounds of layoffs. In all, this paints a picture of a company that is in decline and we've seen a reduction in contributions to the excellent work done by Redhat in the foss world. IBM have a long history of buying and absorbing companies - I don't see why Redhat would be any different and RHEL doesn't make enough money.

Our company is moving away from EL and I know of several others who are doing so. We're all choosing Debian.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (10 children)

For anybody that does not know, Fedora was founded by Red Hat to be their “community” dostro. Before Fedora, there was only Red Hat Linux and it was trying to be both commercial and community. Red Hat founded Fedora to be an explicitly community distribution and then released the first version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux ( RHEL ). This resolved their commercial / community conflict.

Fedora is explicitly NOT an enterprise distribution. They are annoyingly committed to only free software. They release often and have short release cycles. Fedora is certainly not aimed at enterprises.

Rocky and Alma are RHEL alternatives and are absolutely aimed at the enterprise. Fedora merging with either of these projects would be super surprising indeed. It would make no sense whatsoever.

The “community” enterprise option from Red Hat is not Fedora, it is CentOS Stream. Alma has rebased onto CemtOS Stream ( which is what RHEL is also derived from ). That makes sense.

I have fewer comments on the health or future of RHEL or Red Hat itself or how much IBM. Ares about it. I guess I will say that I have never seen so many ads for it. I think revenues are at record levels. It does not feel like it is dying.

I don’t use Fedora or RHEL but Red Hat is one of the biggest contributors to Open Source. So, I hope this cynical poster is wrong. GCC, Glibc, Systemd, Xorg, Wayland, Mesa,SELinux, Podman, and the kernel would all be massively impacted by less Red Hat funding.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fedora will live without red hat. It’s got a community structure in place, all infrastructure is open, etc.

Obviously it would lose some funding and manpower but other distros get by.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

the ubuntu installer has always been the key difference for me specially with zfs and multi-monitor/fractional scaling/nvidia setups that it has configured well over the years where other installers leave you with a lot still to do

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