this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024
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SneerClub

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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

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...And if it weren't for that one joke by Hannibal, Bill Cosby would be very uncontroversial.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

https://x.com/tracewoodgrains/status/1805683265480933638

He's getting mad at scientific american again because they wrote a shit opinion peice but he should know the wiki guidelines are generally against citing opinion pieces as fact in your article

"Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (invited op-eds and letters to the editor from notable figures) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact."

https://x.com/tracewoodgrains/status/1803489864488460647

Same here, and I'm not even sure what was so bad about what was said because it was generally a tame article compared to many others.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

The author appears to now be planning a hitpiece on David Gerard:

With apologies for resurrecting an old thread: I am an independent writer exploring the potential to write an article focused on Gerard's Wikipedia-related history. I've reviewed the information here and the on-wiki behavior and controversies I can find, but if anyone has information I may have missed or other thoughts to share, I would welcome direct messages or replies. In particular, if anyone with an informed perspective is willing to chat at length on the record, I'd appreciate it. I'm an outsider to the whole Wikipedia ecosystem and trying to parse through thousands of pages of history and edits looking for key moments gets rather dense--it's quite easy for me to miss relevant info.

https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11466&start=50#p355881

I, for one, am just psyched to see what Jesse Singal's research assistant is going to tell us about the evils of Wikipedia.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

TW emailed me asking if I'd be willing to help with the piece. I declined (I can't see it being any sort of productive use of my time), but I expect he will cobble together something from the extant public records.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

so now we have confirmation that tracing w. is (a) a petty, vengeful prick and (b) reads this; good. tracing, whoever you are, why don't you focus on some introspection, like consider what causes you to agree with obvious anti-scientific crap (scientific racism, hbd) and why do you prefer the company of fascists (proto, wannabe, true, disguised, and the illinois nazis) to the company of people who don't think genocide can be justified for any reason?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

i must point out that i've barely interacted with the guy, if at all, and had previously considered him on the saner end of the rationalists from his reasonably coherent twitter

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I tried to look up this Mr. Gerard's lurid wikipedia past expecting at least a torture dungeon or wiki-cult or something; but all I found were a bunch of people grumpy that they couldn't turn wikipedia articles into cryptocurrency ads.

Booring.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

When I was listening to the most recent episode of the Maintenance Phase podcast which was all in on mocking J. Michael Bailey with a special dig at autogynephilia theories, I went to go see if David had any history policing weirdos on Bailey's wikipedia page, as an excuse to bring the episode in for a stubsack link. And he didn't, which means, once again, booring.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

don't forget the ones outraged they can't use the Daily Mail or the Sun as sources

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

"wikipediocracy"? fucking seriously?

for all the good bits that wikipedia has (and there are notably many), a rulership is definitely not among that list afaik. wtf.

(e: I'm going purely off the domain name there, but holy shit what a name)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

@froztbyte @sneerclub Well, if the vast majority of people in a community share a consensus reality and basic principles, you don’t need a formal governance structure to oppress hallucinating sociopaths.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

literally started by a guy who was banned for trying to set up a business to write wikipedia articles, and the evils of JIMMY WAAAAAAAAALES!!! still fill his spleen

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

aaaaand then I actually looked at the page. fuck me it's even worse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

ten years ago the wikipedia cranks had compiled lore on me, and some of it had a vague relation to anything that ever happened! Sure can't wait to see what a good faith rationalist researcher comes up with

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

TracingWoodgrains seems to have developed, in the process of leaving mormonism, an obsession with seeking out contrarianism. But perhaps more importantly, he ~~openly admits to being racist/HBD~~ "align[s] broadly with informed experts that the distribution of genetic traits associated with intelligence is non-zero". As such, he only considers it "racism" if it's "racial crassness and antagonism".

In which TW names who he thinks is treating the topic with the seriousness it demands without sinking to crassness: our good good friend Cremieux.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Is "informed experts" really an accurate description to use over "other racists?"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

the distribution of genetic traits associated with intelligence is non-zero

This doesn't even make sense. What the fuck is a zero distribution? A probability distribution cannot be "zero" in any sensible meaning of the word. Did you mean uniform?

Also obv citation needed you sack of spuds.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think he is trying to say something like "non-zero skew", but really, he just means "I subscribe to race science, but only for the articles".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think you're being too generous. What they wanted to say is "There are genetic traits associated with intelligence." However, not inserting probability distributions in every fucking sentence is a class 2 misdemeanor in Rat circles, hence what was written.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

There are genetic traits associated with intelligence.

Which is obviously true, since the genetic traits of BEING A HUMAN quite strongly correlate with intelligence.

There's no way to say the quiet part without saying it out loud here!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

zero distribution is what they got, the day sense and awareness were handed out

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

no type of racist is more rabid than the genteel racist

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

align[s] broadly with informed experts that the distribution of genetic traits associated with intelligence is non-zero

Now I'm not the smartest cookie in the bakery but I know a dog-whistle when I see it!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Woow, TIL. I thought he was halfway decent from the way he flatly called sailer a racist (low bar I know), but his consistent fraternization with Hannania seemed strange to me.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

look at this incredibly offended dork

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ben Stewart:

Manifest's decisions are and have been bad not in terms of PR, but bad for its own epistemics, the forecasting community, EA, and basic human decency.

TW:

"Basic human decency"? Jeez, mate. I understand not wanting to engage with right-wingers personally, but treating it as a deep affront when others choose to do so is off-putting, to say the least.

Ben Stewart:

Yeah that was a bit strong, sorry late here.

Ben, honey. You do not have to apologize for referring to platforming Hanania as an affront to basic human decency. That TW is successful in shaming you for accurately identifying what happened here is no credit to your own ability to recognize the dangerous epistemic bubble in which you find yourself, or the cultlike social pressures that persuade you to distrust your own correct judgement -- not because TW challenged your facts or your interpretation, but because he -- gasp! -- called it "off-putting."

Not everyone's going to like you. Not everyone's going to agree with you. Social stigma is a good and correct tool in your toolbox when a member of your community says that cites-the-Turner-Diaries, enforced-sterilization, anti-"miscegenation", “women’s liberation = the end of human civilization” Richard Hanania has something valuable to add.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Why do they care about hbd to begin with? Listening to fringe ideas isn't a formula for becoming smarter

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

look this only pattern matches to a racism fan making a bad faith appeal to geek social fallacies

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Tracingwoodgrains is a reference to one of the sillier plot points in Card's Ender series, right? Not very flattering imo.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

oh god is it from that messed up OCD plot line in one of the bad ones -- Xenocide? -- which I'd forgotten about until just now? I guess if someone has an OCD diagnosis you could imagine taking that as a reclamation...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm assuming he does have OCD, but given the context I don't know if I'm very confident about how much ironic distance there is to the name..

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago
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