The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
Ahh yes, one of the privileged professions where the punishment for murder or rape is resigning, but keeping your pension. Even keeping your career if you move one district over.
She's neither dead nor was she raped. Maybe read more than just the headline. This is more a case of corruption.
He was in a position of power, and took advantage of that said position of power. It may not be you typical alley rape but its sexual assault (ps i know nothing about laws, #notlegaladvice)
He was in a position of power, and took advantage of that said position of power.
To benefit himself and her alike. He might as well could've taken money instead of sexual favors, in which case you wouldn't call it "stealing" either, but a bribe. It's corruption. Calling everything sexual "rape" is just downplaying the severity of actual rape.
you don't understand how coercion works. libertarian maybe?
You're in a plane crash and wake up on an island...
It would've been coercion if the cop had offered her something in exchange of sexual favors, which is the exact opposite of what happened. So, seems like you don't understand how coercion works. And keep your Ameritard labels for yourself please.
So just to clarify, if a police officer has someone arrested and says "perform sexual favors or I'll make your punishment more severe potentially affecting you life and livelihood" that to you is the same as a bribe?
No, because they then would coerce the victim.
If you'd have read the article, you'd know that's not what happened.
“You’re not too bad,” the woman can be heard saying on body-worn camera footage. “What’s it gonna hurt me if I work the system, you know what I mean?”
People in police custody cannot legally consent to sex. Regardless of how willing she was, she was still being held against her will. That, by california law, is still rape.
By your reasoning, would threatening a woman until she has sex with you still count as rape? Because you seem to be saying that everything is fine and dandy as long as the woman eventually consents, regardless of circumstance.
Coerced consent is not consent, so sex after threats is rape, yeah, I agree with you there. But that's not what happened in this case. I don't think the two scenarios are the same.
The cop still committed a crime, I just don't think the crime is rape.
According to California law it's literally rape. So you're quibbling over fine line definitions for no reason. In addition, the woman would not have had sex with him if not for his position and authority. The fact that she didn't scream and complain is irrelevant. It's the same as if a woman doesn't fight off an aggressor because shes afraid of more or worse violence. The lack of physical resistance is not consent.
Hey, interesting factoid, you know who can't consent to sex? Prisoners. But 34 states allow police officers to have "consensual" sex with detainees. How/why a person in police custody would have consensual sex with their arresting officer is unfathomable.
California is not one of those 34 states. What Officer Hair did was rape.
Unrelated to the main point at hand, but just a quick heads up that a factoid is something commonly believed to be true, but actually isn’t.
So is an Asteroid just something commonly believed to be an Aster, but isn’t actually one?
They're not real stars, I guess
Makes sense actually!
I appreciate that! TIL
How/why a person in police custody would have consensual sex with their arresting officer is unfathomable.
While I agree with the reason for the laws, the recorded audio in this case certainly show it was consensual.
Ok, so she wasn't under arrest on her way to booking? Because if the sex was in exchange for freedom or leniency, then it wasn't consensual.
No, there is no consent between an officer and a person in custody. That is not possible.
She offered herself to him. This is a case of corruption, not rape.
you are tragically misinformed about what constitutes rape, and I suggest you seek help from a professional.
Your ad hominem is a great argument and really shows your moral high ground on this matter.
Read other comments or inform yourself on California law. Someone under arrest is incapable of giving consent. (Same as a child can't)
I don't care about California or any Ameritard state laws since we're arguing about ethics, not legal advice.
While under arrest. Even if she didn't explicitly suggest quid pro quo, it's still an unbalanced power dichotomy where true consent is impossible.
That's like saying a 12 year old in foster care consented to have sex with their foster parents. All statements made by the rape victim were made under duress and do not mitigate the crime.
I think it’s a little different than straight up rape. Rape is forcing a sexual encounter on someone. In this case, the woman was not forced to have sex, she tried to use sex to get out of legal trouble. This is the definition of bribery. Here is a thought experiment - if the woman offered money instead of sex, would you say the officer robbed her? I doubt it. The woman offered a bribe, the officer accepted it. The officer is corrupt, not a rapist. Let’s not absolve the woman for offering bribes just because what she offered was sex instead of something else of value.
Now, if the woman was not in legitimate legal trouble and the officer fabricated a charge and threatened her with it unless she had sex with him, that is rape and blackmail. Doesn’t seem to be what happened in this case though. The woman was in legitimate legal trouble.
How is it not force when placing someone under arrest, putting them in the back of a locked police car, and driving them to the police station for booking?
If a police officer took money in exchange for their detainee's freedom, then yes that is absolutely robbery. There is always the implicit threat of violence and imprisonment when someone is under arrest. To refuse a police officer while in custody is to risk your own safety and life. Under those conditions, there can be no version of consent thatmitigates the crime.
You’re basically saying if anyone commits a crime and an officer arrests them for that crime, but the person offers money or sex to get out of it, and the officer accepts, then that person was robbed or raped. So, all any criminal needs to do to become a victim is convince the officer to take their bribe.
Don’t you think there is nuance in how both parties behaved?
If the officer was going to execute their duties fairly, but gave in to temptation and took the persons offer; that is bribery.
If the officer fabricated or embellished the charges and used that to make a threat against someone in order to pressure that person to give something of value, then that is rape/robbery, and blackmail.
A court and jury should review the case closely, but from the article, it sounds like the officer was doing his duty in arresting the woman on legitimate legal grounds, and then she offered sex to get out of trouble, which he accepted. I did not see any evidence that he threatened to escalate the trouble she was already in, in order to get sex out of her.
Yes, if an officer uses their position of authority to take money that doesn't belong to them, it is theft. If they use the threat of imprisonment to have sex with someone, that's rape. This isn't complicated. It doesn't matter if the bribe was offered or solicited, the officer is either using force to have non-consensual sex or taking something that doesnt belong to them. It doesn't matter if there was an actual quid pro quo agreement, or if the officer was planning to continue to deliver the detainee to jail. It doesn't matter at all if the detainee is guilty, and it's disgusting to suggest that it does so you should stop that.
It depends on the behavior of the officer. It’s the difference between these two statements:
“I’m going to make things worse than they should be for you if you don’t do what I want”
And
“Ok, I will not fulfill my duty because you offered me something to look the other way.”
In the first case, the officer IS using the threat of imprisonment to have sex with someone. In the second case, the officer is shirking his duty because the arrestee has offered a quid pro quo. These are two different scenarios and it comes down to who is instigating the act. In the eyes of the law, intentions matter. This is why there is a distinction between first and second degree murder.
almost arguable that the power dynamic goes the other way since women can get a lot done with just their boobs. I'm certain I can prove that men are mentally under performing when a girl starts seducing them to the point that they will lock themselves in their own car.
No one is saying he's not a piece of shit or that he didn't abuse his power or that he got off easy by resigning. This just does not meet the definition of rape.
Reverse the roles. Female cop, male prisoner. Guy makes the same offer, she accepts. Did she rape him, or is it more likely that the guy gets an additional sexual harassment charge?
Nice
You’re not wrong
Yes, in your hypothetical situation, she raped him. Rape is rape. It's nonconsensual sex. Detainees cannot give consent to sex because there is always the inherent threat of violence and imprisonment.
It's akin to slavery. Slaves cannot consent to sex, either.
There's been cases of underage students coercing teachers into sex and the teacher wouldn't get convicted of rape too. Or if you want to draw an even more extreme scenario, what if she was faking an emergency, the cop looks for her in the back and she forces herself onto her. Would you still argue he raped her because of power imbalance of his job and physical strength? We can go even further... Are all sexual acts of men onto women rape, because they're inherently stronger than women? Can men not get raped by women because of this?
The cop here clearly did abuse his power, but it was absolutely not rape. She was using his weakness against him. It's like accepting a monetary bribe, except that it was sexual favors instead. This is corruption, not rape.
That's not an argument in defense of rape, that's a reason to expand the legal definition to align with the reality of the situation.
Anyone who is empowered to take away all freedom from an individual cannot have consensual sex with that individual. Whether explicit or not, there is always the threat of force when a police officer has someone in custody. It is not possible to consent to sex under those circumstances. It is always rape.
They aren't able to just take away all freedom because they don't actually have that power. A cop can only hold you in custody for so long. A system can still only take away your freedom based on the crimes committed and that is still for a court to finally decide on whether you're found guilty of that or not. In this case the situation is that the cop can make you NOT go to prison by looking the other way or falsifying data. It's the opposite scenario of what you're describing. This is a quid pro quo situation where both parties would be benefiting from their underhanded deal that they've made.
Yes you get due process, with a bias towards believing the system. People can often spend months in jail before the process progresses to the point where the charges get dropped. So yes a police officer doesn't have the power to put you in custody for your whole life, but they do have the power to put you at the mercy of a flawed system where you are rolling the dice with your future.
Oh, you sweet summer child. Never change, the world needs your optimism.
Sure buddy, whatever. Love the thin veiled ad hominem though. Really underlines your argument.
That's not an ad hominem. I'm not dismissing your argument because of who you are. I'm saying you're being naive in your expectations of what the police can and will do. And if you actually do believe that an arresting officer who is willing to fuck a detainee will be constrained by legal limits to their power, then I really don't know how to respond to that.
I'm not dismissing your argument because of who you are. I'm saying you're being naive in your expectations of what the police can and will do.
You claim I'm naive so you dismiss my argument. You're literally contradicting yourself here.
And if you actually do believe that an arresting officer who is willing to fuck a detainee will be constrained by legal limits to their power, then I really don't know how to respond to that.
What would he do? Put someone into his cellar? That would not be backed by his supposed power level of being a cop, that would just be an act of a criminal like any other, cop or not. Your whole argument is that it is rape because of the power imbalance and what he could have done to her if she refused, based on the power granted by his job. You're spinning one hypothetical scenario after another to make a point that just boils down to a black & white ACAB.
But 34 states allow police officers to have "consensual" sex with detainees.
Look up "prisoner consent rule 34" for more info!
Heh heh