this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
213 points (94.9% liked)

Linux

48044 readers
778 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
213
Is it possible to use Linux without the command line? (lemmy.world)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
152 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

We've all heard it before: People claiming Linux isn't a viable alternative cause you can't run it without using the command line.

I decided to test that. Now there are several distros aimed at new users that have preinstalled GUI tools so you don't have to touch the Terminal. But I wanted to see if that's also possible on a distro not specifically aimed at fresh converts. The oldest distro with a large userbase, which a lot of people consider to be a "standard" Linux, is Debian, so default Debian with Gnome is what I'll use.

I consider "running an OS" to at least include booting it with full disk encryption, starting applications, connecting to a network, browsing the web, file management, installing updates and new software (both from the repos and third party sources), installing necessary drivers, setting up printing and scanning, and adjusting the looks and behaviour of the user interface.
So generally anything you'd be able to do on Windows without opening Powershell, CMD, Regedit or a text editor.

I guess I'm telling you nothing new when I say that you can install, boot, launch apps and browse the web on Debian without the command line.
It comes with a pre-installed software center, printer and scanner setup works out of the box from Gnome's settings.

Here's where it gets a little trickier: Scrolling on Firefox is rough, cause the preinstalled old version doesn't have Wayland support enabled. So you either have to enable Wayland support or install the Flatpak version of Firefox.
To enable Wayland, you have to write MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 into /etc/environment. But the file manager doesn't let you edit system files without starting it as root from the command line. To add an "edit as admin" entry to the context menu in Nautilus, you need the nautilus-admin package which isn't available in the software center. It can be installed with Synaptic, a pre-installed GUI frontend for apt. But you still need to edit a system text file, which goes against the spirit of this challenge.
The other option requires enabling Flatpak for the Software Center. You can do that by installing gnome-software-plugin-flatpak using synaptic, then heading over to https://flathub.org/setup/Debian to download the flathub repo file which can be installed with a double-click and a reboot.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros ship with a newer Firefox version and Flatpak support out of the box.

To install any compatible binary on your system (like the Universal Android Debloater, for example), just copy it to any place you like. Install the menu editor alacarte and use it to add a menu entry for the file. Now you can launch it from within Gnome by clicking on its icon or using the global search.

Another issue is that during the boot process, you're already presented with the command line running boot messages by you, and the password prompt for the disk decryption is also on the command line. Also, the 5 second Grub countdown is kind of annoying. To make this prettier, we need to install grub-customizer, launch it, set the grub countdown to 0 and add the word splash at the end of your kernel parameters in the settings. This activates the "boot-prettifier" plymouth which is pre-installed but not activated by default. Again, pushing the boundaries of this challenge.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros come with pretty plymouth boot enabled by default.

To enable the non-free nvidia Driver, you need to enable non-free software during the GUI installation or in the Software Center settings, then install nvidia-driver from Synaptic, and reboot.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros come with a one-click NVidia driver install

To install Steam from the Debian repos, you'd need to enable Multi-Arch first, which isn't possible without the command line. Using the Flatpak version is your other option.
Note: Some beginner-friendly distros handle this for you as soon as you install a package that depends on multi-arch

tl/dr: It's possible to run and administer Debian for standard tasks without touching the command line. It's just generally faster to use the terminal if you know what you're doing.
Distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin or Pop!_OS (possibly also Manjaro which I have no experience with) remove the remaining roadblocks. The only time you'll always need the command line is to fix issues you have with help from other users, because it's much, much easier to just post the right terminal commands online than to guide you through whichever GUI you might be using.
Anyone who's ever followed a Windows troubleshooting guide knows what I'm talking about.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Nowadays, pretty much yes. I more or less use the command line as much as I did on windows. Of course things like installing software via the repos is more efficient via the command line, but most GUI tools will work perfectly fine for most people.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You can definitely hammer a screw, but why would you?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

People claiming Linux isn’t a viable alternative cause you can’t run it without using the command line.

Even in 2024, many people begin using GNU/Linux with Arch Linux or Ubuntu with apt-get, then later they complain that Linux is not for average users. Maybe the community needs more GUI only tutorials.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

That is very true. Good point.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

Yes, absolutely. But I also wouldn't want to. GUI tools have their issues sometimes. The command line is basically raw compute power.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

with certain distros the answer is a resounding "yes" with some others it's a "technically, yes" and with even others it's "good luck!"

UAC-style sudo prompts are are one of the most common issues i can think of. It's very poorly implemented in the distro i use.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Absolutely and has been the case for years...

Have no fear, the Penguin is friendly

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Meanwhile, in Plasma:

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I use Mint and have yet to use the command line. I browse the web and play games on steam. All of this works right out of the box.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Totally agree....

I've been using mint for the last 4 years, and while I have had to use the command line for some obscure installs, it also works as an OS without needing to use it (i jumped in at the deep end and installed it in a pc I got from my brother and used it as my everyday OS)

I don't understand why Mint isn't the first suggestion for Linux 'virgins' switching over from Windows etc, it has everything you need pre installed plus the download manager for anything else

Linux has a flavour for everyone, and after a while when you're confidence and skills grow there is the fun of using the command line and a bit of tinkering....or not, if you are happy with the 'basics'

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Exactly, it entirely depends on how you want to use your computer. If you install Mint because you just want a privacy respecting OS that supports your hardware? Then there's no need to touch the CLI. You can experiment and try out the CLI at your own pace (if you want). I honestly cannot fathom the "if you don't want to use the CLI you shouldn't be using Linux" attitude that many of the responders here have. Isn't the ultimate freedom of open source is to use the hardware how you would like to use it? So what if you spend 20 years on Linux and never touch the CLI?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

I use Linux for 20 years now. I almost never use the command lines nowadays. I'd say it is almost possible.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Yeah my daily driver for awhile has been Debian stable. All the normal day to day tasks can very easily be accomplished with only gui tools. My CLI stuff is more or less limited to ssh access to other machines and some light docker tinkering.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

my first computer only had a command line

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Yes.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Yes.

Anyone who says differently is confusing "necessity" with "efficiency".

When I first started in Linux I rarely used the command line at all. But as time went on and I became more familiar, I found that there were some things that were simply faster to do in the command line.

I can't think of a single "everyday regular user task" than needs the command line, tbh.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

I think one of the issues, why there terminal is seen as necessity is, that there are almost no tutorials that refer to the gui. So if you're a newbie and try to find out how something works like adding a third party repo to your package manager or making an install script executable, all you get is a command. You don't get a "add this address to the list in the settings menu of your package manager, which you can find here", for example.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

You more succinctly, and respectfully, stated my thoughts than I did in my post :)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yes, entirely possible. I've been using Linux off and on since 2006 and full time as my daily driver since 2018ish. I've used Ubuntu, Fedora, Open Suse, Endeavour OS, Manjaro and various combos of those in that time. I barely use CLI, bar distro updates and a few basics. The fact that you need to use the CLI is a complete myth. I see a lot of responses stating "yeah, but why would you want to?" . That, frankly, is gatekeeping. I fully respect those who choose to use the CLI as a powerful tool, I understand their position. But if someone chooses not to, because they aren't as used to it or just prefer to use a mouse to click around then yes it is possible, and they should be encouraged to run a Linux distro if they want to.

If I had read many of the responses below, back in 2006, I may not have tried Ubuntu when I did and may not be still using Linux to this day.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

This is only correct if the GUI works. Never had a Debian install where not at least one KDE setting was broken and needed to be fixed from GUI.

Also if you want to run things like team speak you can hardly escape the command line

[–] [email protected] -4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Why would you? The command line is the natural way of interacting with a computer. GUIs are just for convenience. What you’re asking is like „can there be a city where the public transport is so good that I never have to walk“.

And that’s a fact for every operating system, not only Linux.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

"The command line is the natural way of interacting with a computer."

It's not natural at all for many people. Far from it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

English is the natural way of communicating with Americans. A lot of people don’t find that natural (because they don’t speak English), but that is their fault, not the Americans‘.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

So two people communicate, one is American speaking English and the other is a Natmurrikan, speaking their Natmurrikan language. The former communicates with the latter and the latter communicates with the former. So if they speak Natmurrikan and it doesn't feel natural for the American, is that right that this is the American's fault?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If a user speaks a different language, good usability knowledge will tell you, change the software to help the user. Not change the user to help the software. The software is only there to make things easier for people.

As I said for many people, the tasks they do are not always possible or not easy with the CLI. Try drawing a curve, try moving an object from bottom left to a position higher up to the right. Even navigating a tree structure, common in many apps, it's easy to click on a chosen branch directly. Even with CLI options, more people, including CLI users, feel it's natural to use a GUI app to do their email, manage files or browse the web. There is a lot of learnability built in. Discovering new things by accident is a natural benefit. And a big downside of the CLI. Which is not THE natural way at all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The command line is the natural way of interacting with a computer.

N-natural?

Plus there are many, many, many, many use cases for a computer. Even the ones you don't even think about, like bird sighting.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 5 months ago

No.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Many times you need to use the terminal with Win and Mac too. Sometimes something goes wrong, or you need to enable something that doesn't have a UI. So in the last few years, I've used the terminal with these OSes too. So I don't see why you wouldn't use the terminal with Linux too.

The only time you wouldn't use the terminal at all, is if someone else is your sysadmin, and you're just driving a browser or a couple of apps, as a plain user. Then sure, you'll never need to touch the terminal. My mom only uses a browser for example on her linux laptop. It's good enough for her. But when there's an update or anything else such, I'm the one dealing with it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

as much as you can use windows without touching the command line, so long as you don't fuck about with stuff or want to do anything particularly fancy you have no reason to touch the terminal, but if you break stuff then just like with windows you'll want to use the terminal to fix things because otherwise you'll be spending 5 hours clicking your fingers off in a graphical problem solver.

load more comments
view more: next ›