Skill issue.
Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
How do you mean?
Gotta wear your headphones to hear the footsteps bro.
wat
Ok, so when I am driving my 2021 Seat Leon FR PHEV at slow speed in a quiet neighbourhood, I should roll down my windows, turn up the volume and start pumping Scooter?
I can do that...
It's called driving safely and you should already be doing that
Scooooota in da hausssss
The most fun way to solve this problem is to give EVs huge subwoofers and make them play funky ass beats in pedestrian areas.
Already the case in europe. There are fake motor noise loud speakers to make evs noticable.
This is also true in the US since being phased in from 2019-2020. All new models since that time have low speed warning sound requirements.
Pedestrians are faced with a choice: Funky-ass beats or funky ass-beats!
XKCD 37
Extremely misleading title there, OP
More pedestrians are injured in Great Britain by petrol and diesel cars than by electric cars, but compared with petrol and diesel cars, electric cars pose a greater risk to pedestrians and the risk is greater in urban environments. One plausible explanation for our results is that background ambient noise levels differ between urban and rural areas, causing electric vehicles to be less audible to pedestrians in urban areas
I don't quite understand what's misleading in my title, given that quote. Would you mind elaborating?
Your title ~~implies~~ says that people are more likely to be hit by an EV than an ICE. That is factually incorrect as there are more ICE cars on the road
Your title says that people are more likely to be hit by an EV than an ICE.
No it doesn't. It says that EVs and H-EVs are more likely to hit a pedestrian than ICEs. That doesn't necessitate that more people are hit by EVs than ICEs. A reason for this potentially being that there are more ICE vehicles than EVs and H-EVs.
They are responding to what they think the title is implying instead of what is says.
Because of how much quieter they are?
One plausible explanation for our results is that background ambient noise levels differ between urban and rural areas, causing electric vehicles to be less audible to pedestrians in urban areas. Such differences may impact on safety because pedestrians usually hear traffic approaching and take care to avoid any collision, which is more difficult if they do not hear electric vehicles.
That doesn't make much sense. ICE vehicles have got so quiet, especially at low speeds, that most of the noise is tyre noise.
There were far fewer models of electric and and h-ev cars being available during the time of they've taken their data from (7 to 11 years ago now) than ICE and even compared to how many there are now. Therefore it's entirely possible that an issue with a particular model (for example visibility issues caused by a pillar blindspots) could skew the results.
It would be interesting to see if they can get the same results with 2019-2024 data.
That doesn’t make much sense. ICE vehicles have got so quiet, especially at low speeds, that most of the noise is tyre noise.
What doesn't make sense? The point that you just stated was precisely the motivation for the study — there was a concern that EVs and H-EVs are too quiet to be safely perceived by pedestrians.
There were far fewer models of electric and and h-ev cars being available during the time of they’ve taken their data from (7 to 11 years ago now) than ICE and even compared to how many there are now. Therefore it’s entirely possible that an issue with a particular model (for example visibility issues caused by a pillar blindspots) could skew the results.
In the "Strengths and weaknesses of the study" section of the paper, they touched on the age of the data being a weakness. In addition to the concern that you pointed out, there are also new regulations that have been put in place to mitigate these issues — e.g. the NHTSA mandates that cars have a minimum amount of sound that they must emit [source].
It would be interesting to see if they can get the same results with 2019-2024 data.
Agreed.
Put a bell on them, works for cats.
I've never been struck by a cat in a crosswalk so this suggestion checks out.
Some newer ones do emit a sound when moving slow. I've never looked into it to find their actual rationale — I've always presumed that it was for pedestrian safety.
This is why I want an electric car that makes a jet turbine noise like the cars do in sci-fi movies.
EVs being quieter than ICE cars is a blessing imho. I'm not completely against having them emit additional sound for safety but please let it still be quieter than an ICE.
So you don't want a 126db electric car?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/business/dodge-electric-muscle-car/index.html
Anecdotally, I've heard some newer EVs emit a sort of whirring sound when they are moving slowly to alert pedestrians.
It’s mandatory in the US but they all make various weird noises that don’t sound like cars.
So it is! [source]
Note that is 2016.
I have a Hybrid built before 2016 that plays no noise. We are out there... lurking, sneaking, ready to pounce.
I have heard this as well. IMO it's much too quiet still. I want like, an actual jet engine whine but at maybe 65-70 decibels.
No thanks, electric vehicles being quiet is a bonus.
Now if they had the forward sensors made a moderate lebel honking noise when a potential collision with a oedestrian is detected, that would be great.
No thanks, electric vehicles being quiet is a bonus.
Now if they had the forward sensors made a moderate lebel honking noise when a potential collision with a oedestrian is detected, that would be great.
Personally, I'm not bothered by the sounds that EVs emit at slow speeds (the minimum sound is required by the NHTSA) — I think they even sound kind of cool. I do agree that collision detection is also useful. I would argue for a combination of mulitple safety systems. That being said, I do completely understand the noise pollution concerns of vehicles; however, given that the sounds are only emited at very low speeds — IIUC, these sounds are intended match the sound pressure generated by a vehicle travelling at 30kmph — it shouldn't be too much of a problem; I believe that it is worth the benefit.
Damn that is a huge effect size… I am shocked, especially given safety features that now exist on newer cars (unless they normalized for car age).
I'm not shocked at all. I've almost been hit like 3 times in parking lots by silent EVs.
As a pedestrian, I was certainly unaware at how much I relied on my hearing to generate my situational awareness around cars. Each time, the driver wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, either.
Honestly, as the pedestrian in this scenario, I'd rather the vehicle cue me on where it is and what it's doing than give the driver another sensor to ignore. Give me as the pedestrian some tools to work with. Let me be involved.
It doesn't have to be as loud as a big diesel truck. A ford focus is fine.
especially given safety features that now exist on newer cars
Do note that the dataset that they used is from 2013-2017.