When labor is so cheap you're paying rice for human hamster wheel power generation.
this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
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What is he waffling about, chinas renewables are growing faster than any other country
A good solution to this is for less dependency on them. This is the nature of them taking too much, and that's just... really not going to work out great for them, nor anyone.
That anybody can disagree with this is truly flabbergasting. China should not be the sole decider of whether our planet lives or dies. I don't... I don't get how anyone, even the Chinese, can disagree with that.
They’re mad because they’re terrified that, in order to compete without paying slave wages for Chinese labor, they might have to gasp! get paid less to make up the difference! Not smaller profits! Oh, no!
How did you get that from the article?
I read it— but, more importantly, I also know the one thing that China has which constantly allows them to undercut Western manufacturing: cheap labor.
[Christian Bruch's (CEO of Siemens Energy)] comments highlight the complexity for firms desperately needing supplies and parts manufactured in China, but not the competition from complete kits made there that undercut Western firms.
I understand this to mean: "there are no suppliers for some parts outside of China" rather than "my margins are affected, waaawaa"
Like try and buy clay that hasn't been processed at some point through China, or any piece of machinery that doesn't have a component inside which originates in China. Hell, even try go 24 hours without using a Chinese product.
This is why many countries are looking at re-implimenting protectionism, because we have reached a situation of non-control, regardless of domestic wants.
I don't think I agree with their (Siemens Energy's) stance, without a Long term solution to change the issue, but I understand it's place in the grand scheme.
I was hoping by this point China would also aggressively push into the floating offshore wind technology.
But like everything with China it looks like they want the west to build it first then they will steal it and undercut.
Did he end the comment with one of those Mu-Wahahahahaaaaaa laughs?
I would like him to find a hole to die in.
Human Hamster Wheels don't seem very green
I mean when we put this guy into it...
His comments highlight the complexity for firms desperately needing supplies and parts manufactured in China, but not the competition from complete kits made there that undercut Western firms.
We can't afford not to buy parts so other companies can assemble them...
But we also can't allow China to sell complete units because then those middle men companies can't make money...
I'm no climate scientist, but at this point I have no sympathy for energy companies or their profits.
It's insane lots of world leaders say climate change is an important issue, then turn around and tariff or outright ban green energy products from China because they're so cheap everyone would buy them.
Just sounds like corporate welfare where whatever maximizes their profits is necessary, and everything that doesn't gets banned.
The issue is China is producing things below cost to push out competition. That's not good for anyone buy China. They want to be supplier at the expense of everyone else.
That legitimately a good reason to put tarrifs in place.
BUT more money should be spent on renewables also.
They already pushed everyone else out years ago. If it was truly the Amazon business model prices would have gone up. If they want to keep subsidizing the transition to clean energy we should take advantage of it.
Its not that simple. Western money is going to the pockets of Chinese workers when it could be going to the pockets of western workers. The West might not even be taking advantage of it might be that they have been so naive that they have been losing money to China and investing back home could have been the cheaper option and also the option that spread up renewables globally.
It also gives then huge leverage on things like trade and war.
BUT more money should be spent on renewables also.
If the US had been subsidizing renewable to the same degree as China instead of continuing to subsidize fossil fuels, we wouldn't be in a place to need to protect our renewable industry from their cheaper goods.
As far as I'm concerned, the entire problem is us not spending enough on renewables, not that China has 'undercut' anything
Imagine you were starving in the desert for weeks, finally stumble across a McDonald's, but then go "nah, I don't like their business decisions" and walking away...
Climate Change is kind of a big fucking deal
We constantly bail out industries, they can take a short term hit while they learn to compete.
It's better than causing long term damage to our entire fucking planet.
Jesus dude, just listen to yourself:
Short term profits are more important than the survival of intelligent life on Earth.
I didn't say anything if the sort. You're understanding of how things work is wrong.
Imagine this. 10 factories in China that produce renewable goods for the entire world low enough that no other factories in the world can produce anything.
Or 10 factories in China. 10 in US, 10 in Europe. All producing renewables.
What's better for the environment?
Or 10 factories in China. 10 in US, 10 in Europe. All producing renewables.
What’s better for the environment?
If we could magically create the infrastructure from thin air you'd definitely have a point.
But we'd have to wait years, maybe even decades to scale up
We can start that, but we can't wait for it to be started.
Currently there is not enough factories in china to supply the world. More needs to be built. Building them in the west doesn't destroy the ones in China.
So...
You agree with me that we should let people buy Chinese products while we build up our own infrastructure?
I'm just having trouble following you, your comments aren't really consistent
I'm saying there needs to be demand for western products. Tariffs are a good way of doing that.
Africa, Asia and south America can still buy Chinese goods.
But it's not just tariffs...
BYD electric cars can't even be sold in America...
Because they're not expensive enough.
Solar panels have flipped from banned to tariffs multiple times off the whims of American industries.
Don’t you find it hypocritical to criticize support of Israel for committing genocide, while advocating support of China who is committing genocide?
I mean aren't we a globalized economy? There is stuff made by many countries, of whose quality and or cheapness certain countries cannot completely compete with, see Taiwan and their chip fabs, see Japanese car manufacturers. Are we going to throw a hissy fit over their stuff (yes I know we did with Japan but we don't anymore for whatever reason).
Unfair competition with the aim to destroy industries in foreign countries which disrupts industries, governments and national security is what we are speaking about here.
Idk man, I'm not sure what the solution here even is, but there must be a better solution to this problem than complete autarky and or mercantilist-esque policies.
Tariffs and carbon tax. (Could also use the carbon tax to directly subsidise green investment).
That would be the free market solution.