Under capitalism, a properly regulated, and competitive free market is not zero sum.
this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
904 points (97.4% liked)
Lefty Memes
4290 readers
953 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Such a thing is impossible. The current system is working exactly as intended
Such a thing is impossible.
What is your argument to support this statement?
The current system is working exactly as intended
If the current system is intended to be capitalist, then it is not working as intended, as was described above.
What is your argument to support this statement?
You got it wrong. What's your empirical evidence to support your statement?
If the current system is intended to be capitalist, then it is not working as intended, as was described above.
Not at all. This is capitalism. Actually existing capitalism. I'm de-facto correct.
What is your argument to support this statement?
You got it wrong. What's your empirical evidence to support your statement?
I don't really understand this. You claimed that it is impossible. Saying something is impossible is different than saying that it hasn't happened. To claim that something is impossible is a final statement where certain rules can never be satisfied. As such, you certainly can provide an argument for your claim. That being said, my counterargument would be a simple example: Person 1 wants an apple, and Person 2 wants money. Person 1 and Person 2 agree that 1$ is a fair price for an apple. Person 2 gives the apple to Person 1 in exchange for Person 1 giving 1$ to Person 2. Person 1 is happy because they have an apple, which they wanted, and Person 2 is happier because they received money, which they wanted. The net satisfaction is greater than zero — both sides received something that they wanted.
If the current system is intended to be capitalist, then it is not working as intended, as was described above.
Not at all. This is capitalism.
I can use one simple example to counter that: If one can find an example of a monopoly then the market in which that monopoly exists is not capitalist — one example to prove that point is private utilities.
That not how science works. You don't get to posit a theory without falsification and declare it as true until someone else comes up with a falsification for it and tests it.
You have no evidence you just have wild theories based on "perfectly spherical cows in a vacuum" .
And monopolies don't prove the non existence of Capitalism. They're it's natural end result.
That not how science works. You don’t get to posit a theory without falsification and declare it as true until someone else comes up with a falsification for it and tests it.
You have no evidence you just have wild theories based on “perfectly spherical cows in a vacuum” .
Did you not read my previous message? Or did you, perhaps, misinterpret it? My original thesis was "under capitalism, a properly regulated, and competitive free market is not zero sum.", which you claimed was impossible. I then provided a simple example for why it was not impossible. You seem to perhaps take issue with the example's idealistic nature, but the original thesis was idealistic, so I'm not sure why there would be an issue with that. This is purely a conceptual discussion — my statement wasn't making a claim about how effective regulation is at ensuring adequate competition. So I'm not really sure where the issue lies.
And monopolies don’t prove the non existence of Capitalism. They’re it’s natural end result.
Monopolies appear to be the natural end result of a true free market — that is, a market with no regulation. Capitalism simply describes a competitive market. To that end, note that a monopolistic market — ie an anticompetitive market — is, by definition, not capitalist. In practice, to ensure fair competition, a central governing body is required.
Nah, make it illegal to own buckets.
That's the states candy, cease your investigation.
The same object lesson could apply to technofascism, data-silos, police seizures, ...
This is like the level of the boomer meme about teaching kids about taxes.
I think it's meant to be a parody on the boomer anti-socialism meme
The cycle remains unbroken.
BRB gonna buy the bucket off of your kids and give them money so they can go buy their own candy.
Like a true capitalist would.
Additionally, if your bucket handle breaks, you need third party software and hardware to create a matching digital signature to replace the handle.
If your bucket does not have an internet connection, it has no bottom. It is merely a tube.
Aka a donut..
Why does this frighten me to the core. A donut is a tube, it makes sense but I hate this knowledge
Depends on how you see it, a hole or a tube. I prefer a hole.
A common joke is that a topologist can't see the difference between a donut and a coffee mug because you can mould a mug into a donut (assuming it has a handle).
view more: next ›