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Medical freedom vs. public health: Should fluoride be in our drinking water? (www.nbcnews.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

328 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Misinformation campaigns increasingly target the cavity-fighting mineral, prompting communities to reverse mandates. Dentists are enraged. Parents are caught in the middle.

The culture wars have a new target: your teeth.

Communities across the U.S. are ending public water fluoridation programs, often spurred by groups that insist that people should decide whether they want the mineral — long proven to fight cavities — added to their water supplies.

The push to flush it from water systems seems to be increasingly fueled by pandemic-related mistrust of government oversteps and misleading claims, experts say, that fluoride is harmful.

“The anti-fluoridation movement gained steam with Covid,” said Dr. Meg Lochary, a pediatric dentist in Union County, North Carolina. “We’ve seen an increase of people who either don’t want fluoride or are skeptical about it.”

There should be no question about the dental benefits of fluoride, Lochary and other experts say. Major public health groups, including the American Dental Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, support the use of fluoridated water. All cite studies that show it reduces tooth decay by 25%.

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This comes up in Portland periodically as we are one of the few places that DOESN'T fluoridate water.

When you do the research on it, you find some fascinating things:

Applying fluoride topically through toothpaste or mouthwash unequivocably works wonders for tooth decay.

There is no evidence drinking it as part of the water supply does ANYTHING. Positive or negative.

You have to understand one big thing... The first municipality to add fluoride to water did so in 1945.

The first fluoridated toothpaste wouldn't hit the market until 1955, 10 years later (thanks Crest!)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/second-thoughts-on-fluoride/

So when you look at studies trying to determine if drinking water as a source is effective, you need to immediately ignore any study done before the introduction of fluoridated toothpaste and mouthwash.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Apparently the Netherlands stopped adding fluoride to the drinking water decades ago (due to idiots). It is in toothpaste. Which then gets into the sewer which then gets into the drinking water.

Dutch article: https://www.drinkwaterplatform.nl/fluoride-in-drinkwater-alle-vragen-en-antwoorden/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

it SHOULD be up to the individual whether they want fluoride in the water they're drinking. this is not like vaccines, where unvaccinated people are a risk to everyone around them.

edit: adding this https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/

and key takeaway: The Cochrane report also concluded that early scientific investigations on water fluoridation (most were conducted before 1975) were deeply flawed. “We had concerns about the methods used, or the reporting of the results, in … 97 percent of the studies,” the authors noted. One problem: The early studies didn’t take into account the subsequent widespread use of fluoride-containing toothpastes and other dental fluoride supplements, which also prevent cavities. This may explain why countries that do not fluoridate their water have also seen big drops in cavity rates (see chart).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Best comment in the whole thread

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I think a criticism of not fluoridating the water and only buying supplements is its going to favor wealthy people on average and amounts to essentially class warfare.

Imo it makes more sense to fluoridate the water and let rich people buy expensive filters to satisfy their feelings about fluoride. (I'd argue water filter peddlers maybe oversell the dangers of fluoridated water)

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Hey, I'm relevant!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

You're blowin up!

[–] [email protected] 44 points 6 months ago (8 children)

I'm very much on the pro-flouride but it came up in a conversation with my coworker who won't drink tap water.

I said that in a country without universal healthcare, fluoride is free dental care. He said he agreed about the benefit to teeth but his concern was with what it might do to your body. He's a health nut but not a conspiracy theories and I was really thrown off and didn't have a counterpoint.

I just assumed it was fine because I knew fluoride is often found in water naturally...but...can someone with more knowledge tell me how they would have replied? I don't like speaking on things I can't back up with data so I just let it go

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I'm having thyroid problems, and in trying to research iodine, I have found that fluoride can have a negative impact on thyroid function. This link is the best I can do on the subject, given that I'm not sure how to find much trustworthy information. It says that as long as iodine intake is sufficient, the fluoride shouldn't be a problem. But I'm finding conflicting info on what constitutes sufficient iodine intake.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Interesting, thanks for the link! I figured there had to be something to it because he's a really smart guy and not in any way conspiratorial. His teeth are also in great shape so his way of living doesn't appear to be hurting anyone.

For the record, he was not preaching. I was just filling up from the kitchen sink while he used the filtered water thingy so it came up. He was talking only about himself when he expressed his concern

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

If you consume any iodized salt you should be good on that, unless you have a medical condition that prevents your body from absorbing it properly. In fact people don't really get goiters anymore since the introduction of iodized salt which was done to prevent said goiters(a goiter is a swollen thyroid from lack of iodine intake iirc).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I was not using iodized salt at all. I think since "elevated" cooking has become so popular, I can't be the only one who was eschewing it (Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat straight up recommends avoiding it). I also don't eat much seafood. When I was diagnosed hypothyroid 25 years ago, I was told I had a goiter. And not told much else.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago (4 children)

If the stupid motherfucker brushes his teeth twice daily, he's already introducing loads more fluoride to his body than any of the trace amounts they add into the public water system, which is still standards of deviation less than anything that would introduce fluorosis of childrens' teeth (since that's not possible for adults with developed teeth), let alone get to a level of toxicity for an adult.

Now, if he regularly consumes full tubes of toothpaste as a health supplement, then maybe that's a reason to be concerned about fluoride.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

There is non fluoridated toothpaste. Not that I would use it but it does exist.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (10 children)

All right settle down, he's not a stupid motherfucker. He isn't advocating to remove it from tap water, he was just saying why HE doesn't drink tap. He didn't try to pursuade me.

Perhaps he's misguided on that but he is not the person you're probably picturing.

My friend is a doctor and he also doesn't drink tap but for him it's the other contaminates, not flouride

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Consider he might use unfluoridated toothpaste?

Toxicity does exist and is studied: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5805681/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Dude, that's for the odds someone might have hypothyroidism, not at all related to toxicity.

And as noted by the authors:

"Hence, the application of standard household water purification (such as reversed osmosis, electro dialysis, activated carbon filter, and other adsorption/ion-exchange methods) is recommended for patients with hypothyroidism since they have a higher consumption of drinking water. The purification systems can help remove fluoride that interferes with thyroid functions."

So, if you have a family history of hypothyroidism, and you care at all about trying to avoid this incredibly common and easily treatable issue; use a water filter. It probably won't help since family history and regular exercise are much more highly correlated with the incidence of hypothyroidism, but sure, why not.

Also, and this is fun, they conveniently ignore the fact that the people drinking the most water (5+ cups group) have a lower adjusted-odds-ratio (OR) of hypothyroidism.

How about the part where the level of fluoride in the water being in the higher end of the spectrum (0.3-0.5 mg/L) gives you a *checks notes* oh yeah, 3.4% higher incidence rate of hypothyroidism. Right.

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