this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
112 points (98.3% liked)

Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

54772 readers
222 users here now

⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.

Rules • Full Version

1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy

2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote

3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs

4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others



Loot, Pillage, & Plunder

📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):


💰 Please help cover server costs.

Ko-Fi Liberapay
Ko-fi Liberapay

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I honestly don't believe I will have any legal trouble because I don't do anything like cp or worse, I just pirate media I like, not even porn. But across users of communities, or on public trackers, is IP exposure something to be concerned about?

(page 2) 45 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What do you mean by "the government doesn't care"? Do you mean that they are not enforcing copyright protection laws to your knowledge? Or that copyright protection laws don't actually exist in your country at all? If the laws exist but are not being enforced, there is always a possibility that they will be enforced in the future or that a change in government will lead to a change in approach. Your government could also potentially pass new laws in the future that make it easier for foreign entities to go after yourself and other pirates through your local courts.

You need to work out exactly what the law in your country says, what the government's attitude towards piracy is and whether there is a legal precedent in your country for the prosecution of pirates. For example, in Australia we have copyright laws and a government that is at least somewhat committed to upholding them, but we also had a significant court case a little over a decade ago in which it was ruled that the ISP being sued was not responsible for the piracy its users were allegedly engaging in. This essentially set a legal precedent within Australia that allows ISPs to turn a blind eye to piracy and makes it more difficult for foreign entities to prosecute Australian pirates. This is why most court-ordered anti-piracy action within Australia is limited to DNS blocks on websites. As a result, many Australians feel safe torrenting without a VPN because they believe it is very unlikely their ISP could be compelled in court to hand over their information or that there is even the will to attempt this following that high profile defeat in 2012.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (10 children)

In my country it is illegal to share, but not illegal to download, since when consuming you're not meant as a websurfer to know the source of that something. Should that law change, it cannot retroactively affect something that happened in the past. So I don't plan ever to share anything publicly, but only the very few things I'm very passionate about to the point I want to share them with communities of friends which you can access through invites only. Sharing a back up copy with your friends is not illegal either even if the EULA or whatever says it is, unlike for example in the UK.

I was specifically asking about cybersecurity in general.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking then since IP monitoring is a commonly used by copyright trolls.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

Assuming the government defs doesn't care and wont cooperate with lawsuits.

Yes and no. Knowing your IP is sort of like knowing a PO box you rent. It can be used to try and transmit stuff to you, it can also be crudely geolocated, or if the person you're buying it from gives you up it can be traced directly to you as a person.

If someone wanted to, and you had terrible safety practices (such as opening mail you aren't expecting, the digital equivalent would be having software listening to ports) they could send you something harmful but this is probably not very likely unless you are pissing powerful people off (e.g. you're using that IP to distribute anti mossad documentaries or something :P). Your biggest threat is that somebody finds out who you are by going to your ISP and making them give you up.

If you are confident that this is very high effort and you are a small fish it's not much of a risk.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

It's a security risk but it's not a legal problem

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

If you do use a VPN for torrenting, ensure it supports port forwarding. You won't be able to seed if the provider doesn't allow port forwarding. Sharing is caring :)

AirVPN is currently one of the best VPNs that support port forwarding, but there's some others that do, too. NordVPN doesn't support it. There's an old list here: https://old.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/s9f36q/list_of_vpns_that_allow_portforwarding_2022/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Torrenting/seeding works great with Mullvad, which doesn't have port forwarding

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The general philosophy: they can't prosecute the entire populous.

If everyone is pirating, they focus on the ones who pirate the worst shit or the ones who pirate the most shit for profit.

In a sea of pirates, you don't get tagged.

If people stop pirating, the bar for too extreme or too much lowers.

They do pirate the most extreme and the most prolific pirates, however.

A story as old as time.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Is the legal environment tomorrow going to be the same for you as it is today? Are they going to change the law, (or the interpretation of it) tomorrow? Have they already done so, but that news hasn't reached you yet? If they have changed it, does a hostile entity have your information already logged?

To answer your question, yes, you should be concerned about exposing your public IP address.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Oh man, normally I don't respond to these kinds of posts because I'm always worried I'll just be helping someone that does CP. BUt, since you 100% definitely don't, which I think is really cool that you don't btw, I'm going to give you the advice that you shouldn't be concerned about IP exposure.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I have questions:

  1. Does the government just "not care" or is piracy specifically legal because there aren't local laws against it?

  2. While you say they don't care right now, do you think there is a possibility that they might care in the future? Because governments often capture lots of information on their citizens with the knowledge that they can then target people that they dislike. Piracy is one of many things governments can use against a person if they really dislike them or what they're doing.


If it's explicitly not illegal and won't be in the near future, I wouldn't be too worried.

However, it might be a good idea to avoid public trackers anyway and focus on slowly growing a good reputation on private trackers. That might take some time, especially if you have a slow connection, which is quite possible in a country that doesn't care about this sort of thing.

You won't necessarily need a VPN for a private tracker, but it gives you a small amount of protection since at least the members of a private tracker are a (supposedly) vetted, trusted community instead of just any random person grabbing your IP.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

VPN: Don't go online without it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

VPN’s are the rubbers of the internet

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you actually need privacy you should use something like tor, or a box which you have access to that can't or wont be traced to you (e.g. you have access to someone else's by covert means, you bought a server with cash in the mail, you bought a server in a nation that will never cooperate with the nation you're antagonising) which you tunnel to and use as a proxy.

A VPN is not necessarily very secure and doesn't mitigate the most serious threats like phone home programs that will ID you over the clearnet later. Trusting a VPN is extremely dicey and should absolutely not be relied upon to keep you out of gaol. It's better than nothing, but shouldn't be over emphasised.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

A condom also doesn’t solve all your problems but it’s a good foundation lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Using a condom doesn't require trusting a third party to keep you out of gaol, and has lots of regulatory industry around it guaranteeing quality.

VPN companies are not ideological projects, they are businesses bound by the laws in the countries they operate in optimising for profit. They will abuse your trust if it makes them money or frees them from criminal liability.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

My dude you are over interpreting this. It was just a fun little joke. I have a lot more than a VPN guarding my system.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

People read this stuff, get mislead, and get fucked up for the crime of wanting to watch a film from 60 years ago.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (7 children)

I just pirate media I like

In other words, your computer is downloading stuff from other computers, that's potentially receiving stolen property, but a potential argument might be that you didn't know that it was stolen. It's not a good argument, but it's an argument. So you're an individual who potentially broke the law. Depending on how much money you have, you might get a knock on your door.

But then, you also distribute that potentially stolen property to other computers, because that's how BitTorrent works, and now you're part of a distribution network dealing with stolen property. The chances that once you've discovered you come away with just a slap on the wrist are slim to none.

How do they find you?

Through your IP address.

How?

By figuring out who owns that address, who loaned it to you to get online at that specific time. One packet at a time the research will bring them closer to knocking on your door.

So, is it a big deal that your public IP address is linked to torrenting? Yes it is.

Is this the whole story? Not by a long shot, but it's not my job to teach you how to break the law.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

but it’s not my job to teach you how to break the law.

It sounds like it's literally not against the law where this person lives. Like The Pirate Bay when it began, they responded to US lawyers sending them takedown requests by pointing out that US law didn't apply to every country on the planet.

That could change in the future, sure, but I think that this person probably has a better idea of whether that's a possibility in their home country than we do.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Torrent on public access wifi from McDonald's, the local library, your neighbor's unsecured router, etc...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

A lot of businesses and libraries block the ports needed to torrent or do much of anything beyond basic web access. Some places, especially libraries, will also have web filters in place to further complicate access to torrent sources. Even if by chance you could find a place that has those ports open and can get past the filters, as others have said, it is still possible for them to have enough information to identify you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

“I’m going to offload my need to be technically literate in order to pirate to my local library and let them deal with the problem because I’m an entitled asshole who shits where I eat and doesn’t realize I’ll get in trouble anyway.”

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If you think that will protect you, there is a lot for you to learn..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Pray tell how they would find the user from an IP address that will resolve to a location other than where they live that they connect to anonymously?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)
  1. I think McDonald's makes you make an account these days to use their WiFi, I could be wrong, however. This means you now have identifying information about you and your connection on McDonald's servers, which can be subpoenaed in an investigation.

  2. Local libraries generally require you to have a Libary Card, which is associated with your library login. Because lots of people need library computers, they need to be able to get people to leave the computer without having to physically remove them. One of those ways is with tracking who is connecting by associating their account with a library card and disconnecting them automatically after a period of time. Your library usually wants you to live (or at least exist in) the neighborhood, and will have your name and address on file. This can also be subpoenaed in an investigation.

  3. MAC address spoofing is trivial, sure, but a lot of folks don't know to do it, and in any one of these cases, if they used the MAC address that was burned in when the product was sold, they have a real opportunity to nail down which specific device connected. They would subpoena the manufacturer for records of where that device was sold, they would subpoena the records of the local retail outlet, and have information on the sale of the device used to connect.

  4. In your neighbors case, you could just be condemning them to civil or criminal liabilities, depending on the laws in your jurisdiction. That's a pretty "not nice" thing to do.


I'm sure there's plenty of others. Those are just off the top of my head. Most of the reasons involve "companies keeping information about who uses their services and how," often called "logs."

There's a lot more information than just an IP being sent in a TCP packet.


To be clear, I'm not the person you were responding to originally and I think OP is fine if piracy is legal where they live, you just asked how it would be possible and so I tried to think of ways related to the suggestions you made. Cheers.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

What if my neighbor is an asshole who deserves it tho? :p

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

lol ya got me

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Worse than CP?

NM, I don't want to know.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Best to log off the Internet for the last time then, before it's too late.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 73 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's good opsec to have a VPN when torrenting but thats largely due to the risk of being identified commiting a crime.(Or at the very least, having your ISP send you an angry letter about copyright infringement)

If thats not part of your threat model, then you dont need to worry.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I'm in the same boat. There have been numerous copyright lawsuits that have been thrown out by the courts in my country; however, I pirate because I'm poor AF so I can't afford a VPN anyway.

inb4 someone recommends a cheap VPN: No.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I am selfhosting VPN for 2.49$ a month. Speed is up to 700 mbps in my case and I have additional services like PiHole + unbound.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you're self-hosting a VPN that you're using for piracy, you'll still have an unique IP associated with you, and your hosting provider knows that you're using that IP. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

How on earth do you selfhost a VPN?? I've never heard of that

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Self hosted VPNs are not suitable for sailing the seas. Self-hosting a VPN server only provides remote access to your local network. It does not provide any sort of privacy benefits, because the tunnel exit is an IP address traceable to you.

If they are paying for it, it's either not self-hosted, or they are paving a licensing fee for the VPN software they are running locally.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

The majority of VPNs are self-hosted. The most common use cases for a VPN are things like connecting to an employer's network when working from home, or connecting to your home server when away from home.

Commercial VPNs that route all your traffic through them aren't the usual VPN use case. They've become common mostly because people don't know how to use proxies, and they make it easy to ensure everything is routed via the VPN. A lot of use cases that people use VPNs for could really be solved with proxies.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

Cheap VPNs typically are cheap for a reason, and those reasons typically make them not worth the savings (like logging data and selling it)

Of course if your country doesn't care then sail away brother and be sure to seed

My country unfortunately cares a lot so a VPN is mandatory for me

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›