X1 Carbon is king
this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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Linux
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got a t470 refurb for $150 last year and have been very happy with it.
You looked at starlabs or purism?
Purism is crap
I went away for a few hours, wow, all the replies! Thanks all!
I ended up going with a refurbished T480s. Wanted something I could upgrade memory/storage on. The form factor and the metal case also sounded appealing. Should have it in a week.
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T or P series refurb from eBay.
I got a used ThinkPad T480s and installed 40 GB of RAM in it for Qubes OS. It's modern enough to charge over USB-C, so one plug for everything. I also have a MacBook I use for school and both are solid.
Second for this. Got one myself. 1080p, USB C, upgradable ram, I replaced the internal and external batteries no problem. I stuck a second SSD inside last weekend and replaced the thermal paste in about 20 mins. If you like tinkering and being able to repair and maintain yourself it's really great.
Got win 11 on one SSD and Debian on the second and all running well.
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Framework
This will be high on my list when I upgrade next. If you know your OS will be Linux I say it's a waste of time and energy to get a laptop that doesn't come loaded with it. I'm sure 90% of my laptop woes are due to poor support and optimization for Linux.
Still, you can pry Linux from my cold dead hands.
I'll be a homesteading hermit living off grid in the bush before I install Windows on a personal PC.
Framework
Framework
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I have been very happy with my X1 Extreme. I did have an issue with the keyboard and later the touchpad, but I paid for onsite support so it wasn’t a big deal. They came out a day later and fixed it right there at my dining table.
I would say buying a ThinkPad is worth it for their paid support options alone. When I had a keyboard problem on my old MacBook, AppleCare took like 10 days to fix it. Lenovo’s premium support is reasonably priced and they don’t mess around. A person picks up the phone when you call and they treat you like you are important. If it’s a hardware problem, they are not fucking around. They don’t care how it happened or ask a bunch of questions. It’s covered and they are fixing it. Fast.
The X1 is also super easy to work on. It’s easily disassembled with normal tools and upgradable parts like SSD and RAM are right there when you open it up. They don’t do dumb things like solder in the RAM or leave you without an open slot. This thing is designed to be repairable.
Linux support is flawless.
T440p if you're comfortable upgrading it yourself. It's very easy to customize, parts are cheap, and it has a socketed CPU slot. You can buy upgrades for it like a i7 4900MQ, 2x8GB RAM, and a nice 1080p IPS display. It can also be Librebooted (you have to take it apart), and it has a SD card slot, CD tray, and a option to upgrade the standard keyboard to a backlit keyboard.
I've been using it everyday and could honestly use it for another 5-6 years and I'd be fine with it. I just do browsing, coding, etc.
Personally just got a T15 gen 2. AMD version, and very happy with mine. Especially since it has the numpad included. Been running nixOS without any issues so far!
My current personal laptop is a ThinkPad 13 2nd Gen. I believe it was released in 2017. It was my work laptop for 4 years and was gifted to me by the employer. During those 4 years as a work laptop it proved its worth---9 hours of teaching per day plugged into a projector. Once it was mine I slapped Linux on it. Today, the battery still lasts 10 hours.
So, definitely look into getting something used. You probably don't need the best of the best. If I had to choose right now I would rank my needs and try to get something close enough.
An i3 or equivalent might be fine, and i7 might be overkill. Something with an i5, perhaps? Lots of people say 8GB is the minimum for RAM, my computer has 6GB and works. But, if I were going to buy today I might take 16GB just as future-proofing. I would also need that USB-C.
Browse around sites like https://linux-hardware.org/ before purchasing to make sure you don't get any surprises.
Speaking of surprises, I would take anything with Nvidia just in case, and whatever model I take would need to be reparable or upgradable.
If you decide on buying new, you might as well take a look at the vendors mentioned by other users. System76, Slimbook, Framework, StarBook, and so on will hurt your wallet a bit, but at least you know the hardware won't result in time lost troubleshooting.
T480. Still good availability. It was popular with companies that put them back into th e market a few years ago.
Last model without glued RAM. So it's upgradable and you can install two M.2 drives. One with 2240 length and a full-size 2280 in the main drive bay.
The battery setup is great as well. One internal battery plus an external you can choose depending on your needs. Either small and light for a bit more juice or big and heavy for max runtime.
I got one 6 months ago and couldn't be happier.
I wouldn't buy thinkpads anymore... Recent models are not good quality. Mouse pad broke on my first one, and keyboard on the second one. This was ThinkPad Carbon 8 and T14 I believe.
They used to be great but no longer, even though notebookcheck keeps giving them top marks in reviews.
Completely agree. Had to fix a coworkers year old thinkpad. Had motherboard, then bios, then graphics issues. It's been a complete nightmare
My company uses several Thinkpad models. By far the worst are the X1 Carbon Gen 9 and 10. The gen 9s especially die all the time. We generally see more issues with thin and light models in general. We don’t really see many issues with T14 or T15.
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FWIW ThinkPad is not IBM anymore. I assume it's obvious but just in case it's not 100% clear, a Chinese company (Lenovo) bought the brand 2 decades ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad
I'm not arguing that the quality or Linux support changed since then, just make it explicit in case somebody might ride on the nostalgia of once great hardware devices.
PS: I rocked an X31 with ratpoison a while ago, before the times of MacBook Air and I was convinced I was pretty cool.
They're still pretty good. I bought a few second hand, especially the 480s - well built, mil spec, easily upgradeable, relatively light. I'd recommend.
Anything after T480 wouldn't be as great.
I've owned 30 series and now I'm using a T14 Gen 3. While the T14 is a good laptop, the difference is like night and day.
I use a t480 for my carry laptop with Gentoo. It's been solid. Replaced both batteries pretty easily, replaced thermal paste, and it's good to go again. I paid about 160 got it. I had a t460 as well, but gave that to my gf. Either of those were good and not too expensive for a semi modern computer for general usage.
T480($145) + dual heat pipes upgrade($30) and it's amazing. I never hear the fan unless I'm compiling something! Hoping one day a mx150 motherboard will be $150ish so I can play my favorite older games in bed
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I'm a fan of the t14. However, the keyboard has increasingly gotten shit
T480 is the last good Thinkpad. Even T490 is a huge downgrade.
T430 or X230 if you're into modding. The opportunities for modding them are endless. Keyboard from xx20-series (best ever made for laptops), FHD IPS panel, re-celling the battery with 18650-cells, second storage drive with mstata mod.. If I remember right, T430 cd bay can be replaced with secondary battery too.
The old models are compatible with FreeBSD too.
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If you want to support Linux devs and continued development, I would buy from System76, Tuxedo Computers, or even Framework.
If you're going to buy used then yeah the Thinkpad is fine.
I got a System 76 Lemur 9 a few years ago. It was slightly cheaper than a comparable Dell XPS. The laptop is pricy but overall quit nice. I'd consider another one.
Came here to say Framework.
Framework laptops are op buy it once use it for ever
I get the price premium, but they refuse to sell a lower tier motherboard (i3/ryzen 3) so you gotta splash out 1k+.
guess the intention is to get 2nd hand boards but they're still quite pricey since it's so new
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They're also significantly more expensive than ThinkPads and might be a bit much for what OP plans to do
But it'll arrive with Linux and it'll work. You also don't have to spend a week googling wifi chips to see if they'll work.
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For a new laptop, the initial cost is higher. But the idea is that future maintenance and upgrades would significantly lower the long-term cost of laptops. If a part breaks, you don't need to buy a new laptop, just that part. If a new CPU comes out that you want, just upgrade your mainboard for less than the cost of a new laptop.
This is definitely the biggest concern. Somewhat short battery life is also significant.
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I've got a batch 1 and, barring some of the issues you'd expect from a new manufacturer, it is exceptional
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I picked up a yoga 6 on sale from Lenovo three years ago for about $800. SSD + ryzen. Works perfect on linux, the only problem was a faulty fan replaced under warranty, since then been great, could probably find a used one for pretty cheap