When someone concern trolls vegans regarding deficiencies, more than likely they do not give a fuck about the person they are talking. And that is fucking annoying tbh.
this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
863 points (100.0% liked)
196
16412 readers
1166 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I'll translate this into more understandable English:
When someone who claims to be concerned about vegans regarding any possible nutrient deficiencies, and trolls them about it, more than likely they do not give a fuck about the vegan. And that is fucking annoying tbh.
Verily, when one doth profess concern for the welfare of vegans, yet doth engage in mockery and jest regarding their potential dearth of sustenance, 'tis most probable that such a one harbors no genuine care for the vegan's well-being. 'Tis indeed vexatious and perturbing, if truth be told.
Lo! A veritable Shakespeare doth enchant us in the Fediverse!
What?
I care for literally nothing about veganism; weirdly though it's starting to pop up everywhere I look this week.
You should care. Its important
Why's that?
First of all the ethics behind your consumption but also impact on social and environmental sectors. Especially dairy/beef industry is incredibly harmful to our climate
Eh, there's no such thing as ethical consumption imo. I'll stuck with neat and vegetables both.
True but you you can be as ethical as possible
There are many subcultures around food. It's not like the world is split between vegans and junk food addicts.
The Cheeto and McDonalds eating crowd may have crappy nutrition but they're an extreme. The other extreme is meal-preppers. They know exactly how much chicken, rice and broccoli they're eating.
There are huge communities of people who are very health conscious. Some of them focus their consciousness on science, some of them on other methods. Some of those people are vegans. Some aren't.
Thing is anyone health conscious already knows that you can have good nutrition with a vegan diet. Anyone generalizing veganism as having bad nutrition without looking at the specifics of what someone is eating has no idea what they're talking about and probably don't have good nutrition themselves if they're that uninformed
Nice to see a sane take.
But... But... You taste like batteries...
I've read that vegans average fewer nutrient deficiencies than omnivores. People should be worrying more about getting enough whole-food fiber than they are about protein.
Yes and no because when vegans get nutrient deficient it hits them hard. Lack of fibre is completely benign compared to deficiencies in essential micronutrients -- fibre is not essential. You can have a maize and MSG diet if that also includes about two eggs a week your body is not going to be well off but it's going to cope instead of collapse.
And lots of prospective vegans are hit by those deficiencies, and then drop out, at least out of strict veganism. Nothing like a gal's period stopping to scare them off. Which, conversely, means that if vegans want to actually grow their numbers they should stop being all blase about nutrition. It definitely is possible to get enough iron, even as a gal, from a vegan diet but yes you gotta eat your lentils. There's alternatives but how in the everloving does it happen that people turn vegan and don't eat enough, of all things, lentils. I probably eat enough lentils and I'm not even vegan.
I'm a vegan. Lentils aren't a regular part of my diet. I'm willing to bet that they aren't in a lot of people's diets. I live in the US, and you kind of have to seek out lentils here. They aren't a rare and exotic food or anything like that, but which foods can you buy, ready-made, that contain lentils? Soup is about the only one I can think of.
Soup or stew is about the only traditional way to prepare lentils pretty much everywhere, traditionally eaten with bread. The lentil+wheat/rye combo is to Indo-European cooking what beans+maize is to American cooking, and rice+beans to Asia. Africa is also lentil territory the grain situation there is... complex.
In any case yes it's going to be soup or stew in whatever viscosity and degree of mushiness you want but you'll find a metric fuckton of different recipes.
If you want something ready-made there's lentil crisps which actually are very good but also quite a bit more expensive than the usual potato or maize fare.
So, you caveat your statement with ready-made foods, but that's kinda disingenuous, as you're vegan. That means you have to seek out your food in general, and it's more likely that your food may contain lentils, like bean patties that replace beef patties for burgers. Maybe not all of them, but they definitely exist. I imagine a lot of pre-made vegan meals also probably intentionally make up for difficiencies natural to the diet.
I like to cook my own food, so everything I make could be counted as "seeking out". Split peas, lentils, and dal are common beans I keep, along with northern beans, black beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, and pigeon peas.
When I ate pasta more, I also often bought lentil based pasta for a quick meal, so if you're making anything it isn't too hard. Also made lentils and rice often. My bean/pasta drawer(obvious none of the canned stuff):
https://i.imgur.com/ATSvuGy.jpeg
Accidentally hit post before finishing this.
Your question was "How is it that people turn vegan and don't eat enough lentils?" and my answer is "Easily enough, if lentils weren't part of their diet in the first place".
Oh, that wasn't me who asked you that. I just took maybe too much confusion to your statement about lentils being something you had to seek out, which I probably somewhat misunderstood as saying lentils are hard to get outside of soup or something. I don't have an argument against veganism nor am I confused on how they get nutrients nor that some dietary changes are necessary. In other words, I probably shouldn't have made my prior post...
I wonder what kind of diet vegans are following that get deficiencies. I've been vegan for years (started because I had high cholesterol levels), and the only thing I've worried about is B12, which I get from enriched soy products or nutritional yeast. I try to just buy what's in season locally, then find vegan recipes or recipes that can easily be substituted to make vegan. I don't even eat much of the trendy "superfoods" like quinoa, kale, lentils, etc. More like collard/sweet potato/beet greens, chickpeas, pinto beans, root veggies, etc. I dunno where I get my iron from; probably greens. I also use veg or olive oil pretty liberally, especially in recipes that traditionally include beef or pork.
Chickpeas and pinto beans, legumes in general, are a decent source of iron. Lentils just happen to be the best legume, and pretty much best veggie overall.
It's definitely possible to get all nutrition from an intuitive diet, preconditions are a) having been exposed to enough different foodstuffs, b) not being addicted to junk food and c) a habit of cooking from scratch and follow your gut when planning meals. B12 really is the critical thing for vegans as non-animal sources are indeed very rare. There's a nutritional co-processor somewhere in us we wouldn't be here if we didn't have one. Also pregnant women couldn't suddenly crave pickles with Nutella without one. The trick is actually using it.
Yeah, that's why I don't go vegan or vegetarian. I doubt I'll get enough of some nutrients that are easy to get from meat. I've cut out most of my dependency on the beef industry, though even that has been difficult to get to 0 and probably won't because I don't see myself ever being willing to give up cheese. So far, no alternative I've tried has come close enough.
But an Indian vegetarian dish, dol (dal?), has become a regular dish in my home. It's mostly lentils and spinach but it's really good, even my daughter loves it. Plus it's really easy to make a giant batch of to freeze leftovers.
Reject lentils, embrace broccoli 🥦
Actually btw. Broccoli and spinach have much higher iron levels.
Come on, now. Lentils, broccoli, and spinach are all awesome in their own ways.
We agree on 66% of that statement!
Bam!
Most of the iron in spinach is not bioavailable. Veggies generally aren't good at the iron being bioavailable but spinach is especially bad, and lentils are quite good and contain a ton. Apples have excellent bioavailability but comparatively low iron content OTOH you can just stick a nail into them. Or use an iron pan that also helps. And yes diced apples work quite well in lentil stew the lentils need acid anyway, add spices and aromatics, either noodles or a slice or two of good bread and you have yourself a meal.
You have it reversed, iirc. The iron in broccoli is one of the best in terms of plant based bioavailability, and has a higher base amount, and the iron in lentils has some of the least amount of bioavailability, around 2%. Spinach's bioavailability is low too, but still higher than that at 6%.
Of course, in practice, you can just take an iron supplement or cook with cast iron and not worry about this at all.
I'm not Vegan, but I like trying to find Vegan meals I really enjoy, or close enough. One close enough is a bulgur bowl dish, using meat replacement and shawarma seasoning, tomatoes, cucumbers, sometimes chickpeas, sometimes grilled onions, and then the nonvegan parts: goat cheese and feta. Goat cheese is mixed with a little olive oil, garlic, and lemon juice to make it a sauce. There's no meat but ther is cheese, and it's a nice fiberous dish that helps reduce my meat intake anyway.
My main problem with strict dietary rhetoric is that it doesn't acknowledge the benefit of people eating vegan (or whatever) sometimes. Like it's a good thing to get nutrition from diverse sources and there's carryover benefit to the planet when doing this.
I'm not a vegan, but I eat a lot of plant-based meals and when I eat meat, because I eat less of it, it's generally local and ethically-raised. Militant vegans will often turn people from making decisions like this, and I think that's a shame.
I was a vegan for years. And I was careful about trying to get my nutrients. But I needed to eat so much more and I was lowkey tired all the time. When I started eating some meat again I felt ashamed of myself for not living up to the rhetoric. But it's just silly to treat this as an all or nothing type thing. A person eating beans and rice one day and a small amount of beef in a stir fry the next is... not the same as a person eating fried chicken every day, and I don't appreciate when anyone implies it is.
Classic "don't let prefect be the enemy of good."
When people reduce their commercial meat intake in favor of veggies, or humanely raised and slaughtered meat, they are having a beneficial effect. Period.
view more: next ›