this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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On a brisk day at a restaurant outside Chicago, Deb Robertson sat with her teenage grandson to talk about her death.

She’ll probably miss his high school graduation. She declined the extended warranty on her car. Sometimes she wonders who will be at her funeral.

Those things don’t frighten her much. The 65-year-old didn’t cry when she learned two months ago that the cancerous tumors in her liver were spreading, portending a tormented death.

But later, she received a call. A bill moving through the Illinois Legislature to allow certain terminally ill patients to end their own lives with a doctor’s help had made progress.

Then she cried.

“Medical-aid in dying is not me choosing to die,” she says she told her 17-year-old grandson. “I am going to die. But it is my way of having a little bit more control over what it looks like in the end.

That same conversation is happening beside hospital beds and around dinner tables across the country, as Americans who are nearing life’s end negotiate the terms with themselves, their families and, now, state lawmakers.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Death with dignity should be allowed and viewed with reverence.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It must be tough to get to the end of your life and see nothing but people looking to profit off your passing.

Put me in a coffee can and blow it up or something.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I always said: "just put me out with the trash".

The cost of anything death related is so immensly high, even the cheap options are too much imo.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Budget Cremation: they toss the body in a dumpster and set it on fire.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Hey, it's how 99.9% of the rest of life went! Lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

The woman in the article is 65 Years Old. She is old enough to remember some of the third places that were free to exist in.

Which probably makes it worse...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

A lot of third places (aside from things like parks) did want people's money. Malls, cafes, arcades...

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Humans are supposedly 60% water but for me, at least half of that has been replaced with coffee by now.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

I think Kovorkian has the right idea, honestly.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 8 months ago (2 children)

We need a federal constitutional amendment of bodily autonomy. Abortions, tattoos, personal drug use, gender reassignment, plastic surgery, suicide, neuralink, etc. All the same issue: My body, fuck off. You can make it more complicated than that but it’s not.

It doesn’t matter whether you agree with face tattoos or not. Nobody is making you get one. It’s not your concern. An artist can choose not to give face tattoos, as a doctor can choose whether they want to give a vasectomy to a young child-free man. But the government should have no say about what a person is allowed to do or have done to their own body. The government can regulate to make it safer, but not disallow.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Absolutely.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (10 children)

Though I mostly agree with you, I think its a more complicated issue than the picture you're painting.

If I want to kill myself, it's my life right? Only many times people get suicidal due to mental illness or hardship and don't really want to does it's more an "temporary issue", if you will, that can pass with time, or can be cured with medication, therapy, or resolving the situation that caused the suicidal thoughts. So government steps in and outright stop you. Euthanasia laws exist to make sure that people only end their lives when there is no way for the person to continue living without suffering, and it requires some bureaucracy.

Facial tattoos? Sure, do what you want but I think many people underestimate the issues that will enter their lives if they get them. It might cost you a great job, you ready for that? I'd say regulations for that should require like 30 days for you to think about what you are about to do..

Gender reassignments? Sure, but... At what age are we going to allow that? I've seen way too many people saying it's okay for any kid at 5 years old. I've seen some kids where at 5, it's pretty clear that yeah, this kid is different. I've also personally seen 10 year olds where it was clear that the parents were pushing it on the child and then the school and everything around the child jumped on the bandwagon and kept supporting the parents decision z not the child's decision.

Persona drug use, sure. There are more than enough drugs, however that WILL destroy your life. There is no good outcome for someone using meth, for example l, outside a medical treatment, perhaps. So you do outright forbid that. Same for opioids, or are you going to tell me that free availability of opioids is a good idea?

Vaccines, anyone? Thanks to anti scientific and illiterate conspiracy idiots, measles are back and brace yourself for polio. Those fuckers that spread this bullshit should be locked up for murder, IMHO. There is no personal choice with vaccines, you fucking take them, or you will cause the suffering of others around you so shut up and take them.

Hell, even things like seatbelts can, should, and must be forced by government because if you don't, you get the idiots believing that seatbelts are dangerous because "insert stupid story here" so I let my 5 year old in the front seat right next to me, both without seat belt going 120kmh down the freeway. People like that should have their kids taken away, honestly, because they can't be responsible for a cat, let alone a child.

Bodily autonomy is not as easy as it seems, a lot of idiots need to be protected from themselves, and the rest of us must be protected from those idiots too. By law.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Facial tattoos? Sure, do what you want but I think many people underestimate the issues that will enter their lives if they get them. It might cost you a great job, you ready for that? I'd say regulations for that should require like 30 days for you to think about what you are about to do..

In an actually decent society so long as it's not offensive it shouldn't matter what is on your face. Why does this stop you from getting a job? That's the issue right there. Then again in my ideal society at least capitalism and private businesses wouldn't exist in the first place.

Persona drug use, sure. There are more than enough drugs, however that WILL destroy your life. There is no good outcome for someone using meth, for example l, outside a medical treatment, perhaps. So you do outright forbid that. Same for opioids, or are you going to tell me that free availability of opioids is a good idea?

Chances are you are a hypocrite here anyway even if you don't realise it but ignoring that for now. Legalising even relatively dangerous things like opioids is necessary because ultimately people will do it anyway. By making it illegal or you are changing it where they get it from (clean, well regulated supply causing less damage vs buying stuff from criminal gangs), what effects it has on society (criminal gangs and lots of convicts), and how much you can actually help people.

Vaccines, anyone? Thanks to anti scientific and illiterate conspiracy idiots, measles are back and brace yourself for polio. Those fuckers that spread this bullshit should be locked up for murder, IMHO. There is no personal choice with vaccines, you fucking take them, or you will cause the suffering of others around you so shut up and take them.

People are going to hate this but I am not convinced about forcing treatment on people. Maybe if they have a recognized mental illness that makes them demonstrably irrational then I can understand it. I think COVID demonstrated that the concept of vaccine induced hurd immunity doesn't always hold up as even after mass vaccinations in countries where the vast majority got the vaccine you still see infections and sometimes deaths. It's better as an individual to have the vaccine, but as for benefiting other people? Seems pretty marginal now to be honest. I say this as someone who used to believe the whole concept of hurd immunity through vaccines. Maybe if we had more effective vaccines for covid...

Hell, even things like seatbelts can, should, and must be forced by government because if you don't, you get the idiots believing that seatbelts are dangerous because "insert stupid story here" so I let my 5 year old in the front seat right next to me, both without seat belt going 120kmh down the freeway. People like that should have their kids taken away, honestly, because they can't be responsible for a cat, let alone a child.

Seatbelts aren't a bodily autonomy issue, no one is entitled to a car or to drive. To think otherwise is terrible Americanism. Driving is a privilege not a right. Get it through your damn head!

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

How about shutting the fuck up and minding your own business and letting people live and die their own stories?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I've been on opiates for the past decade and a half due to two failed surgeries. I'm not saying my life is perfect by any means, but I can guarantee that I'd be a worse parent and a lot less social without said opiates.

I do take tolerance breaks and I'm (usually) somewhat strict with my dosage, but still, it doesn't necessarily "ruin your life" even if you don't do all that.

Not arguing that it can't be addictive, however. It absolutely can, but it is also possible to live with it.

It would also be a lot easier if it wasn't completely bound to the current doctor you have to go through. Since my second surgery I've had ~12 different doctors, all with their own ideas about how things should be treated, and almost none of them have paid any attention to the fact that changing medication or dosages arbitrarily messes up my daily life every goddamn time. If I could just take care of it myself it'd be way less of a hassle.

Punishing people because they try to avoid pain is such a bad idea in the first place, as we'll do almost anything if it's bad enough.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if you could grow your own papaver somniferum? It’s the same species as poppy seeds for bagels or baking. It’s grown ornamentally so I think it only “becomes” illegal when you milk the pods. Maybe it’s too fun, I don’t know I have no experience with opiates.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If I lived somewhere suitable I'd probably (eventually) try as I have some previous knowledge of growing ..stuff.

With that said though, due to the local climate and amount of poppies you'd need even for a limited personal supply it'd be very suboptimal at best.

It's also a lot harder to properly dose and keep your tolerance low with poppies unless you really know what you're doing.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Gender reassignments? Sure, but... At what age are we going to allow that? I've seen way too many people saying it's okay for any kid at 5 years old.

Doctors and medical professionals should decide whether they want to perform gender reassignments, not the government. The medical professionals all seems to agree that they won't perform a full gender reassignment until the patient is at least in their later teens. Anybody too young for gender reassignment is just being prescribed puberty blockers to give them more time to decide.

I don't see any problem with just leaving it in the hands of medical professionals. Yea, some people may say it's okay for 5 year olds to get a full gender reassignment, but those people aren't doctors, and the process can't really happen without a doctor involved.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The problem is there’s always some crackpot doctor who will make a poor, non-medically influenced decision and without regulation there’s no way to prevent it.

The “vaccines cause autism” guy was a licensed doctor, and I think we all agree he wasn’t making medically sound decisions.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“temporary issue”

your entire life is temporary.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Drugs can be regulated by availability, not by illegality of ingestion. It can be illegal to sell.

If circumcision is legal, gender reassignment should be as well. Both are voluntary genital surgeries that are medically unnecessary. I don’t agree with it, but it’s none of my business. That’s a decision for kids and their parents and doctors to make.

Seatbelts can be a condition of using public roads, same as the minimum drinking age of 21 is actually a condition for federal highway funding. Same for vaccines, you don’t have to but you can’t go to public school, get into stadiums, or fly in airplanes. And they should expect quarantine procedures in hospitals and higher health insurance, Do I think people should be vaccinated, absolutely, but if they don’t want to they should just face whatever repercussions are reasonable - but it doesn’t need to be illegal to be unvaccinated.

Like I said, you can make it more complicated, but I don’t think it is. Just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean it’s unregulated. The government can impose regs to make us safer and slow us down from trying to hurt ourselves, but they have no business imposing laws that limit a basic and fundamental human right, to decide what to do to their own body.

For suicide I would imagine a compassionate therapy rehab-like system. You get checked in and go through a few weeks, they try psychedelics or whatever might help you, and if you still want to when it’s through you get a permit and a lethal injection. Better than having people leap off bridges because they’re out of options. Or overdose on painkillers and burden the healthcare system. Or traumatize their family. By the way the government spends a lot of money on suicide barrier rails on bridges that could be better spent on treatment facilities like the one I’m describing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Drugs can be regulated by availability, not by illegality of ingestion

I generally don't disagree with you, but just want to point out that killing legal ways to get drugs usually doesn't stop people from getting them, instead it just makes the black market flourish and makes it harder to make sure you're getting clean stuff. When it comes to drugs, efforts need to be on education, prevention and rehabilitation, rather than criminalizing any part of the process

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. I was thinking about prescriptions, not illegal drugs. But it’s clear with fentanyl and other prescription drugs that even that is not working. I think the government should be focused on purity, safety, and non-religious rehab. I don’t think the education part is really helping, except for websites like erowid.

But bodily autonomy only really covers ingesting. Perhaps that could make drug tests unconstitutional.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Perhaps that could make drug tests unconstitutional.

Heavily depends on the context, I'd say? Being drunk while driving should absolutely stay illegal, and having drug tests for that would be a necessity I guess

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That’s like seatbelts, a condition for a privilege. We also condition that drivers have good enough vision, but that doesn’t violate any rights. I was thinking of drug tests for employment.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Ah, yeah, for employment that's different, sure. That doesn't really seem to be a thing here in Germany (might even be illegal?), so didn't think of that

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It should also be noted that these decisions primarily affect people who are too poor to afford to travel with their loved ones to places that currently allow assisted suicide. If you're wealthy you are able to die how you want.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

For the last 10 years I have been saying this should be legal. As long as you are determined to be of sound mind and not influenced by anyone, then let them make the decision. You will have many arguments against it (religion, could be cured unexpectedly) but it's the patient's decision.

The only argument would be if doctors and nurses should assist. This is a huge argument against state sponsored executions. Maybe a device that can safely and painlessly assist the patient could be a resolution.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

So what you are saying is that we need some of those suicide booths that they had in Futarama.

You bring up a good point that it would be hard to find many doctors or medical professionals willing to focus their careers on euthanasia, as it goes against their oaths.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The "oath" isn't legally binding. They should help those that are suffering no matter the expected end result.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The "Oath" isn't why they can't go around assisting in suicides. It's because they will literally go to jail in the same way as a murderer

Are you not old enough to remember Jack Kevorkian?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I would love a Futurama world.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I'm in agreement. My concern is that this gives people in control the ability to feign choice. "They wanted this route" when in reality, it was murder.

Just need some decent protections in place for things like these.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In Canada, 2 doctors have to agree that the patient is of sound mind, wants Medical Assistance in Dying, and their condition meets the minimum legal threshold. I think that system has been working fairly well.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Sounds good..but in america...we're prone to finding ways to fuck up.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

I agree, it needs to be a very strict and regulated process. No power of attorney or anything like that. The person needs to undergo a psychiatric evaluation by two or three psychiatrist that specializes in suicidal thoughts or self harm. It needs to be a somewhat long process. But, I don't want it to be a multi year process either.

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