this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I've thought about this. Have the "Agriculture was a trap!" people ever designed like a hunter gatherer Eden? Like not historical reenactment. We have tech be a human and use it. But like buy a few hundred acres and plant a shitload of fruit trees with modern fertilizer, use GPS to navigate it, live in a badass modern tent...

Not for me, but those people seriously seem to have the option right there

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Economists hate him!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

More like paying to prevent someone from assaulting you and taking all your stuff. Literally all of society is built from this foundation. Monkeys will just fuck each other up.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

You literally dont have to pay for that. You can choose to not do that. It would be pretty dumb of you to do that but it's possible.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

you can work for food or you can work for tokens then exchange tokens for food but to imagine that every other living thing is just having a lovely time vibing and munching on infinite, freely available grindage while humans are the only species that has to do shit that sucks is just ignorant Rousseau noble savage dumbness

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I think we tend to greatly underestimate how much the average wild animal's life completely sucks. Predators. Disease. Food shortages. Injuries that never fully heal. Teeth...you know what happens to teeth if you never brush them? A lot of animals are just scraping by. You know how most animals have pretty big litters, and quite often too? Yet their population stays roughly the same? Consider the implications of that fact on the survival rate for an average animal.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Wholeheartedly agree. The only thing I'd add is that I think it's in theoretical discussions that we underestimate how much a wild animal's life sucks shit. In the US at least there's enough forest that if a person wanted to get lost and be totally self-reliant they could take an honest shot at it. I think each of us has had that thought deep down in our secret hearts and, when we do, in that particular moment we make a very frank, honest and accurate estimate about how much fun it would be dying of an infection while lying face down in the cold muck. And this coming from a person who prides himself on being "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The rabbit that my cat brought home today was definitely not vibing

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Your cat ought to work a little less.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I know this is a joke, but for real outdoor domesticated cats kill 1.3-4 billion songbirds a year… and most of those cats are being fed by humans.

They really do need to stop working so hard, and humans really need to start thinking about the ethics of letting their cat out to slaughter the wildlife around their home for no reason.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I keep finding dead things in my yard because of this. There are at least 3 "neighborhood cats" that someone lets run wild. They're definitely fed, groomed and collared, they have somewhere to go at night. Do you know of any techniques to reduce the impact short of just letting them come into my house during the day?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Steal the cats. Indoor cats live longer and don't murder birbs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

that would condemn my rats to a lifetime of constant terror

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Maybe not. The bars on our cage are too small for cats to actually get at the rats, and they don't try. The rats are unbothered by cats being around. Obviously we close the bedroom off when it's ratty playtime.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

I’m 14 and this is deep bro

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

At least they know what Joe Rogan looks like.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Please, enlight me more with your celebrity trivia.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

TBH if Orangutans knew they could pay to conserve their own habitat and buy more food then they'd probably be working jobs, too.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Right up until they tried to unionize, at which point they'd be exterminated to the last orange hair.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

AFAIK there aren't any Orangutans in America, they're mostly between Indonesia and Malaysia.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's all about resource management and having skills to survive. Both monkeys and us - humans do it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Our economy is an abstraction of nature. Both require work for survival.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Our economy is an abstraction of nature.

Its several layers deep in abstractions, which leads to some serious contradictions and faulty logic chains. Climate Change is probably the most current and obvious example, but we've got a host of instances in which we misappropriate or squander natural resources in a way an orangutan could not or would not. From the volume of trash production to the concept of financializing capital construction, we generate enormous amounts of excess capacity and waste very rapidly and then simply displace it onto distant habitats in order to keep it out of sight and mind.

When we talk about a distinction between natural and human activities, a lot of what we're describing is the artificially rapid pacing and the subsequent over-consumption of our behaviors. No orangutan could deliberately accrue the kind of ecological debts that a human child incurs without even thinking.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

we generate enormous amounts of excess capacity and waste very rapidly and then simply displace it onto distant habitats in order to keep it out of sight and mind.

In fairness, the other apes also tend to walk a little bit away from their nesting sites before they poop. The reason there aren't great big mounds of orangutan poop visible from space is probably more due to the fact that there aren't 8 billion orangutans all pooping at the same time than anything else.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The reason there aren’t great big mounds of orangutan poop visible from space is probably more due to the fact that there aren’t 8 billion orangutans all pooping at the same time than anything else.

The vast majority of human waste is generated by a fraction of that 8 billion. The Sentinelese Islands aren't causing climate change.

That's not even to say that primitive man wasn't an ecological force. A great part of the Holocene Extinction came about during the Hunter-Gatherer phase of human existence. But mass migrations and displacements of native species aren't unheard of in prior epochs. The bigger problem came with post-industrial development, wherein our share of "poop" ballooned from 320 pounds of fecal matter to 2000 pounds of excess plastic waste per capita. Its this 7x increase in volume of junk that's causing us problems, not the short term jump in the number of subsistence farmers in central Asia.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The vast majority of human waste is generated by a fraction of that 8 billion

to what end do they generate all of this waste?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

National recreational travel and industrial-scale armed conflict.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

And now I'm picturing 8 billion orangutans all pooping at the same time. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

If you want a picture of the future, imagine 8 billion orangutans all pooping— at the same time

George Orangutanwell - Nineteen Eighty Fur

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