this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hello world!

We would like to start by saying thank you ❀, no really πŸ™ THANK YOU to ALL the moderators out there!

Without you folks, we would have no one to help keep our community safe and help build the communities both here on Lemmy.World and on other fine instances. To this end, we want to make sure your voices are heard πŸ“£ loud and clearπŸ“£.

So, in the spirit of transparency, we would like everyone to know that we are looking to help out the folks working on Sublinks. Over the last several months we have grown to be more than just Lemmy.World. We've added platforms such as Pixelfed and Sharkey to help offer our users more diverse options for expressing themselves online. We still are very committed to Mastodon as well.

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time. Any changes in our core services would need to be discussed extensively internally AND externally with our community members. We firmly believe in the growth of the Fediverse and without the users, there would only be software, and that's no fun!

Sooo...

The Sublinks team has written up a little survey, which we feel is both thorough and inclusive. It covers a wide range of topics, such as user privacy, and community engagement, along with trying to gauge things that are difficult when moderating.

Also please be aware the information collected by this survey is completely anonymous. As many of us in the social sciences background know, if you want the REAL feelings of individuals, they need to feel safe to express themselves.

πŸ‘‰Moderation Survey HEREπŸ‘ˆ

Please feel free to comment in this thread, we will do our best to respond to any genuine questions.

We look forward to hearing from each and every one of you!

=Sincerely,
Fedihosting Foundation

PS ... also if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🀘😜🀘

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (6 children)

I don't see why the moderation tools couldn't just be improved on Lemmy. The new moderator view has been very useful for me as a moderator. We already have Lemmy and Kbin. The Sublinks about page doesn't say how it is going to be different/better than the existing options apart from moderation tools. On top of that it is made in Java instead of Rust? That's just going backwards in my opinion... This post also does not state why you guys are interested in a Lemmy alternative. You could have named some issues you have with it and why something else would be better(just like the Sublinks guys could have done in their about page). I started my communities here and put a lot of effort in them. I can't just switch instances without destroying most of the work done. The language used here really makes it sound like this instance is on borrowed time. Being able to transfer communities to another instance would be nice...

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

The title and starting was so unlike .world that i for a sec doubted if i was reading instances wrong but oh well seems like a heading to lure you in and bam you with a completely different things.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Why do you people seem to love mod tools so much when it comes to causing contraversary but are always late to update instance ver ?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (8 children)

Lol says they are not corpo and anonymously collecting and then shows microsoft forum down your throat . Also the hello fellow kids type of PS was icing on the cake for me . Thanks for the laugh cheers.

Now be a good little powertrippy mode and remove it as we all know you like to show how strong and big you are by using the mod tools lemmy doesn't 'have" . Also how's suckin up to threads going nowadays ? Lololol

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (5 children)

If I'm looking to build skills in a new language, that language is probably going to be Rust and not Java. One of those languages has a bright future. The other is going to look a lot like Fortran in 15 years.

I expect real performance issues with Java at some point, especially compared to Rust. The initial difficulty in picking up the language is worth it if I never have to see another Factory pattern that only returns one type. Why just use a constructor when you can use ~~idiopathic~~ idiomatic java?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (15 children)

We chose that, as we already saw the things that can be done wrongly with rust. And no one of the sublinks team can do rust really, so it was just a matter of what languages can be learned faster and/or have already good knowledge about a programming language.

If you really want performance, please write your code in binary, then you have no compiler, no runtime just plain binary code, it will be fast but unreadable ( like rust if wrongly done ). Java is just a good old and known programming language. There are already some techniques to improve performance and / or cluster your application up. With an load balancers. Something like lemmy tried, but a little bit easier and extendable.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Are you planning on sharing the results of the survey? I think the Lemmy folks would be interested in it too.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (6 children)

After mulling this post over for awhile:

  • .world has many instances in the fediverse and existed long before Lemmy.world. Ruud has never, to my knowledge, posed anything like this post about another potential fedi service. The other fediverse services have coexisted without need to position them against each other. This difference in approach implies intentions, if not outright actions with the illusion of user input.
  • The prevalence of Linux users on this platform is common knowledge. So much so, it is a common complaint from users that feel excluded or uninterested in Linux. The use of Linux implies a distrust for Microsoft, and for the most part megacorporations. While the survey creator (sublinks) may receive anonymous data, Microsoft is absolutely correlating information that comes across their server and selling that data. In my opinion, this should have been an obvious thing most of the Linux community will not participate in, (myself included as one of the most active users and a mod). And it reflects poorly on the FOSS nature of sublinks. A FOSS survey system is needed badly for effective engagement.
  • As many of us in the social sciences background know... Please explain the intention of this statement. I don't mean to be cynical, but to me, this implies I have been part of some science experiment of unknown intentions and implications; at the extreme end of possible meanings. I thought we were a FOSS community, many with a self hosting interest. A social sciences interest and background has entirely different motivations and raises concern for me.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

.world has many instances in the fediverse and existed long before Lemmy.world. Ruud has never, to my knowledge, posed anything like this post about another potential fedi service. The other fediverse services have coexisted without need to position them against each other.

Seems to me that's because (with the possible exception of Lemmy vs. Kbin) this is the first time there have been two Fediverse services of the same type. (After writing that I fact-checked myself: it turns out there are two Twitter-equivalents in addition to Mastodon, Misskey and Pleroma, but they're not noteworthy enough to have their own Wikipedia pages, so...)

Anyway, it seems to me (given that Sublinks is intended to be API-compatible with Lemmy) this is less of a "position them against each other" (as in competing for users in a walled-garden sort of way) issue and more of a "choose among several equivalent implementations the one you like best" issue.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Please, if you dont want to participate in the forms, be so kind and DONT participate in it. And dont bash others for beeing not an linux elitist that only touches FOSS stuff.

The last point is a "pun" a "joke" or in german a "witz". If you dont understand it and only search tinfoil conspiracy theories than please not here.

If you are really that deep invested into alliens that want to learn about your species by spying onto you through non FOSS software, then please dont use the internet, go out, have friends and put your tinfoil where it belongs, as a wrapper for some cooking.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You know that in the FOSS space Microsoft does not have a good standing. Asking people on a FOSS based social media to give anonymous answers about another FOSS project through a Microsoft service is a bit of an oversight.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah fine power tripping here nothing else to see folks . also they aren't "foss elitist" you said the survey was "anonymous" and they explained how its not.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

You answered none of that user's questions at all and used your post to tear them down.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Can you help me understand what the first 6 questions have to do with the survey subject of moderation? They seem to collect personal information without direct bearing on anything.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Microsoft 69/420

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

I want to start by saying I am extremely thankful for Ruud and the team and think that you did an amazing job with lemmy.world and I wish you success in the future.

That said, I am a monthly 30 dollar donator to Lemmy and I am not interested in Sublinks. I read through the threads and my take is that I think the motivation for the development of it goes against my personal politics and mischaracterizes nutomic and dessalines. While I appreciate the nature of open source to open up avenues for people to act as they think is best, I do not want to leave the Lemmy.

Ahead of a migration to Sublinks I hope there comes a cleaner way to move communities off lemmy.world. If I had known how the Fediverse worked 11 months ago I would have self hosted an instance and shared my communities that way as to not be defederated from people I want to be federated with. Additionally I think that having a single huge lemmy instance is not great for the architecture of the fediverse as a whole and even if there were no changes planned or being considered. I think that many instances hosting communities is preferable to having large ones like lemmy.ml and lemmy.world.

Again I totally get that this is provided free and as is and as such you are free to make the decision you think is best. Even though I am a difficult person, I very much appreciate you, your team and what you are trying to accomplish. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Additionally I think that having a single huge lemmy instance is not great for the architecture of the fediverse as a whole and even if there were no changes planned or being considered. I think that many instances hosting communities is preferable to having large ones like lemmy.ml and lemmy.world.

May I ask why you didn't move to another generalist instance? It's a two clicks operation now to export and import settings from the settings menu

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Because 10 months ago I chose to host c/veganhomecooks here. I do now use my own instance that I run out of Azure and plan to figure out a way to move my comm there but that is not easy to two click and move, I would lose all the subscribers and posts and it would not be cached on any other federated server. It is currently the largest and most active vegan focused community on the fediverse and do not want to leave it behind.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I would have asked the same question, just do it earlier than later or then add a note, on where to find your new community if you want to move your community too. That is sadly a software limitation and would be irritating if a whole community can just swap instances.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Because I don't want to make a lateral move to another instance hosted by someone like you and would prefer to do it myself. I work full time and it took me a few months to figure out how to deploy and maintain my instance before I put it to production.

edit: English is not my first language, I didn't mean this to sound attacking. When I said someone like you I meant in general someone that I do not personally know and sometimes the way English speakers cloak language is not clear

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Ahhh ok, i wish you good luck with your instance! If you need some tips or help i know a good guy on the LW team ;D .

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Come on over to lemm.we kids! We will stay on Lemmy and don’t curate your feed ❀️

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Yeah 😞

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Thank you, corporate press release overlords.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Is there an alternate survey site that could be used other than Microsoft? The site is pretty much impossible to see in dark browser mode as well (light grey text on white background).

Aside from that though, what is the difference between Lemmy and sublinks?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I’d like to know this as well. Perhaps better mod tools?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Better mod tools, a non toxic development environment and a more common and well known programming language. A seperate team for UI/Design and API, so that the development goes faster and goes to multiple checks before it gets released. It is lemmy api compatible, so your iphone or android app will still work.

Sublinks has a roadmap too, to give everyone a glimpse where everything is and what is planned. And Sublinks developers welcome everyone that want to support the project, even non developers that want to input their ideas or personal experience.

Sublinks will add some moderation tools for mods and instance admins, to have a better control over their instance and to reduce spam, trolls or illegal content ( not pirated but that BAD porn stuff )

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (7 children)

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time.

Well that is concerning.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Is it?

I was under the impression that Sublinks was basically a drop-in replacement for the backend of Lemmy, just with better mod tools. If Lemmy.world switched to it, would normal users (not mods) even notice or care?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

I don't know. I'm not beholden to a single platform. I use Lemmy with like three different clients too (Tesseract is by far my favourite for Desktop) so the "Lemmy" I care about is essentially just an API. The link above says

It features a Lemmy compatible API, allowing for seamless integration and migration for existing Lemmy users.

The way I read that is "you can use the existing Lemmy clients to connect to a Subkey instance." Further it says

Embracing the fediverse, it supports the ActivityPub protocol, enabling interoperability with a wide range of social platforms.

Meaning we'll likely be able to at least view Sublinks content via lemmy, if not interact with it like any other Lemmy community/post. In that case, who cares if it's not Lemmy? To the end-user it might as well be.


My main concern is that a lot of jumping around would mean we'd lose users each jump. Eventually we'd just have empty halls with no content. Knowing that Subkey is out there as an alternative in case the developers of Lemmy decide to pull the plug, or something else happens with it, is heartening.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, they can’t see the future. People can change their minds. Better to write something like this than say β€œwe will definitely always support Lemmy” and then in 5 years say β€œlol that was a lie”.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

If the Lemmy admins can't make a living from it, that's the Lemmy community's fault.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Ticking for what exactly?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time.

At this time

Hmm.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

They just wanted to head off anyone assuming that, due to adding support for other platforms. And leave it open in case lemmy tanks in some way at some point. All we can know is our current intentions, we can't know what our intentions will be if things change in the future. We can guess, but only so accurately.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Will there be a user survey too?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

We will be looking into that after the current form is over.

Thank you for your great idea! This could give sublinks just a little bit better understanding on the overall situation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

EAT IT, CORPO

;)

edit: this is where you grumble "fkn punks"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (6 children)

PS … also if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🀘😜🀘

"YES FELLOW KIDS, WE ARE ALSO, HOW YOU SAY, STILL DOWN WITH "IT" "

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It?

Uh, yes, I, too, am down with IT. 🎈🀑

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🀘😜🀘

dude that sounds even more corporate πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Just kidding, xoxo <3

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

fr fr no cap skibidi rizz 😜

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