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this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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Here I was hoping we would get a breakdown on the companies making ARM processors ... Still an informative comments section.
Please keep politics out of here
For what its worth I agree with you. From my experience the idea of not being political is unpopular with lemmings
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Yeah, there’s nothing political about free software! Why should we have to read about people’s liberatory ideas in the linux community?
It’s absurd I tell you!
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This is pointless. Your tax dollars are doing MUCH more for Israel than what products you buy. Boycotts are a capitalist distraction from the real systemic issues.
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I think if you start with political positions of bigtech companies...
Just buy used
What motherboard do you have? Also what happens exactly when the lock-ups happen? Have you ever been playing audio when the lock-ups happen and does it loop or stop or keep playing?
I recently had to "fix" (workaround) a similar issue in the OpenBSD kernel with a specific hardware peripheral on my PC (running a 2nd-gen Ryzen), the High Definition Audio controller. For whatever reason (and only when I was running OpenBSD) interrupts from the HDA controller (to let the CPU know to refill audio buffers) would just randomly stop making it to the CPU and audio would loop for a few seconds and then shut off. I spent a long time trying to figure out what causes it and reading Linux driver code but I couldn't find a cause or why only OpenBSD would trigger it. I ended up having to write kind of a hacky polling mode into the HDA driver. My only guess is some of these AMD-chipset-having motherboards have faulty interrupt controllers.
Maybe there is a similar issue with your system and timer interrupts aren't making it to your CPU or something. But I'm not really an expert on PC architecture and idek if it even works like that on PCs lol
Sorry for so many questions but do you also have any kernel logs available from when this happens?
Also what happens exactly when the lock-ups happen?
Screen is frozen, doesn't respond to keyboard or mouse input, including unable to switch to a tty or kill the graphical session (I have a keybind to exit my Wayland compositor, which I launch from the tty, so when I use the keybind it sends me to the tty—that is, if my computer isn't locked up lol).
I don't remember if this has ever happened with audio playing, idk what happens to audio if it happens with audio playing.
I think I did post kernel logs to a forum way back in the day when I first got this PC and started having this issue, to no avail—at this point I'd rather just get a new CPU and save the headache and stress, especially since this is a known issue with Ryzens
I see. Our motherboards have different chipsets (I have an X570 in mine). It probably has nothing to do with my issue...
Hoping those kernel parameters fix it. I wish I could help further. PCs are just a bottomless, mostly undocumented rabbithole :(
Afraid the kernel params didn't fix it. Have invested in a newer Ryzen cpu as people are saying that the first gen ones were particularly buggy so I'm hoping it's fixed in the newer ones.
I never managed to fix this bug with my first gen Ryzens. Worth upgrading to something newer for sure.
Ah. I'm getting this answer a lot actually. I might try a newer Ryzen then if a lot of people are saying the newer Ryzens work
Newer ryzens are better, especially because they get frequent updates to their microcode that fixes a lot of the issues you're experiencing.
I have this same bug on the same platform! It was infuriating to track down. I was able to get around this by disabling c-states in the bios. I've heard that updating your aesga firmware also helps, but I can not confirm that.
I've heard that newer Ryzens play nicer with Linux.
Yeah First Gen Ryzens definitely had a Linux lock up bug. My x1700 had it all the time and could never fix it.
I experienced that issue, AMD replaced it for free for me. Still rocking that R7 1700 to this day, still going to strong!
Do you know if it's limited to first gen Ryzens? I'm looking into getting a Ryzen 5 5600X and I want to be sure I'm not gonna have the same issue
My Ryzen 9 5900X has none of these issues.
Never experienced or even heard of Steam Deck having that bug and that's a somewhat recent Ryzen.
Yes, AMD was replacing Ryzens that had that bug. I'm not sure if they are anymore though. But it's 100% a confirmed thing. I have not heard anything Zen 2 and newer having this problem and have no experienced any Linux issues with my 3000, 5000 and 7000 series CPUs.
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Yeah, my 5800X3D works perfectly; absolutely zero issues. I'm guessing it's making use of the 3DvCache too since I don't notice any performance degredations compared to Windows.
I had a similar problem with a Ryzen 5 1600, at first it worked flawlessly when I did a manual OC, then when I made a reset, I didn't care to OC again, and it began to occasionally freeze, usually when idle. When I made my manual OC again including upping voltages a bit for CPU and RAM it worked flawlessly again???
Weird since motherboard defaults aught to be stable IMO, but apparently they aren't always.
I've been using this CPU for 7 years now, and it still runs like a champ, as long as I don't use the motherboard defaults. I can't remember last time it crashed or froze.
EDIT:
I just found out the package "disable-c6-systemd" mentioned in your link, is exactly to prevent voltage drop below 1v at idle, which sounds exactly like the bug I had. which is funny to learn 7 years later. ;)
I appreciate you raising this question, thank you.
I have a system with a Ryzen 1700 with the same issue and have found the only reliable way to run it is by installing and enabling the disable-c6-systemd package from the AUR. The other fixes provided in the wiki article you linked are correct but aren't sufficient on my system, the CPU keeps reenabling the C6 state on its own and the disable-c6-systemd package works to counter that. The reason it works on Windows is they've disabled the C6 state by default for the CPU.
Ah, thanks. I'm using runit not systemd (although this was happening on systemd when I was on systemd too) but I saw amd-disable-c6 in the AUR so I've installed that now, fingers crossed it works (the fixes in the Arch Wiki article haven't fixed it for me, it just happened again rip)
Edit: nvm, looks like that package is a systemd service
The package is just a systemd unit to run the command python zenstates --c6-disable so if you install the zenstates-git package and get runit to run that command at startup it would be equivalent.
Thank you!!
Edit: Tried running that, I'm getting the error that /dev/cpu/0/msr doesn't exist. dev/cpu doesn't seem to exist at all on my machine. Hm
Edit 2: You need to run sudo modprobe msr. All good now :)
This is amazing to find out now after 7 years:) I actually adjusted voltage manually on my Ryzen R5 1600, and it became 100% reliable, apparently the fix you mention prevent voltage below 1v at idle. I wondered why my CPU wasn't reliable unless I made manual OC with some voltage tweaks?
I never looked it up, because my OC solved the issue, but I always thought it was a bit weird.
I have a Zen 2, Zen 3+ and a Zen 4 system and they all work well very with various Linux distros (Arch, Fedora) and recent kernels.
It's very likely that your bug is specific to early Ryzen CPUs/chipsets. A couple of folks on those reports mentioned their issues went away after a motherboard/BIOS upgrade. So I think you'll be fine if you went for a more recent AMD CPU+mobo.
What kernel version are you seeing that lockup bug on? I have a similar bug on Ryzen 5 2600x with kernel versions >= 6.7. 6.6 is fine.
More directly: Buy used. Lots of reputable sellers on eBay and their returns policy for defective products is unbeatable.
hardened kernel v6.7.9, but I also had the same problem on the regular Linux kernel a while back. It's been a while since I've used the regular Linux kernel though so it might have gotten fixed on the regular kernel but not the hardened version?
As I understand, early ryzen processors are generally more buggy. I run 5800x on my desktop and a 5600(x?) in my server. You could try a newer ryzen and see if it works. I would recommend shopping around for a decent warranty.
That's good to hear that you're not having problems on newer Ryzen. Although not sure if I want to risk buying a new Ryzen CPU if there's a chance I could have the same problem
Buy Intel used so that you're not directly contributing?
Other than that or AMD, your only other option is ARM.
Can you go and buy an ARM CPU and build a desktop system with it?
Yes.
Not many, but they exist. I think most of them come soldered to the board like laptops.
ltt made a video recently-ish showcasing a multi threaded arm cpu desktop. Not sure how availabe that is to the market though.
Get another AMD chip, you've just been unlucky. I've had AMD running Linux for 5 years with no issues.
Ah, that sounds a bit unfortunate. I've run AMD CPUs on Linux desktops with Bulldozer / Piledriver / Ryzen 7, my current laptop is a Ryzen 7 as well, never run into that at all. Hopefully the Arch wiki will sort you out. If not that, the third option would be 'install Linux on an M-series Mac' - don't know how feasible it is at the moment, and paying the 'Mac premium for hardware and software integration and then overwriting the software' doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I have has zen2 and zen3 systems and haven't run in to that either. So Zen2+ systems should be mostly fine.
If you get an M1 or M2 mac it should mostly work. If you need thunderbolt(WIP) or vulkan(WIP) then you will have to wait. Otherwise accelerated desktops work and audio is working now. Honestly if you compare performance to competing systems, they end up pretty similar in pricing.