this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024

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Turns out, far-right shitheads are still far-right shitheads (media.kbin.social)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

May 12, 1997 - The African National Congress formally apologized Monday for the killing of civilians by its guerrilla forces during the ANC's three-decade struggle against apartheid.

"We regret the deaths and injuries to civilians arising from armed actions. We apologize to the next-of-kin for the suffering and hurt," said a statement from the ANC to South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, set up to investigate apartheid-era abuses and promote reconciliation among South Africans of all races.

The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country's white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country’s white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.

Which makes a stark difference between the ANC (or rather, the ANC's policies) and Hamas.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Exactly the same thing you mean.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If I cite any of the many, many times in which Hamas has unambiguously and deliberately targeted civilians with planned attacks, will you concede, or will you just make excuses for the slaughter of civilians?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The ANC had a FAR worse civilian casualty rate than Hamas. The Hamas civilian casualty rate is 66% even including IDF friendly fire on civilians.

If you find a planned attack on civilians from October 7 do link it. I'm curious to see it and will watch it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you find a planned attack on civilians from October 7 do link it. I’m curious to see it and will watch it.

I was actually intending on doing any of the many, many pre-October 7th attacks because I've seen people deny proof of intentional targeting of civilians as "Israeli propaganda".

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If you read a little further in the ANC letter:

ANC says some guerrillas insufficiently trained

The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country's white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.

But the ANC statement said some of its guerrillas weren't sufficiently trained and "were never thoroughly under the discipline of the ANC."

I already know some Hamas members went rogue. When you work with people who's entire families have been bombed by israel some tend to get trigger happy.

The question is whether these were planned orders from the top down or soldiers going rogue.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The question is whether these were planned orders from the top down or soldiers going rogue.

Okay, so, again, if I provide you with evidence that Hamas has committed attacks which were deliberately planned, from the top-down, to target civilians, you'll concede the point?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Yes 100% where is it?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (5 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karni_border_crossing_attack

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nah, he will just call it propaganda and accuse you of wanting all Palestinian children dead. That's all he does.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (8 children)

Instead of strawmanning show me the evidence you're all so sure exists. Should be a lot easier right?

Doesn't it exist?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Who has ever said they're communists?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yeah and so is Israel. I don't support either, I support Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I agree.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Very telling to (rightfully) say "both sides are bad" but not say "I support civilians on both sides". You know you can condemn a far right regime but still show solidarity with that country's population, right?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Now that the terrorist attack is behind them, Isreali citizens arent currently being bombed the shit out of and active warzoned. Are they at risk of future terrorist attacks? Yes, but CURRENTLY its Palestinian citizens who are at a FAR higher risk

Edit: Lmao, apparently Tankies can see and reply to me even if I cant see them. I assume this is because I havent blocked them personally, but instance blocked Hexbear

Clarification to my Edit: Tankies if you are confused why Im insulting you even though you think I'm on the same side as you, Hamas can go fuck itself. Just like Isreal doesnt represent all Isreali citizens, neither does Hamas represent Palestinians. Isreal and Hamas can go fuck themselves, they are both pretty awful. I feel for Palestinians and consider them the most fucked over in this ordeal, but what Hamas did was VILE, even if what Isreal is doing in response is even more so

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Oh so the thousands of rockets fired specifically at the Israeli population are perfectly fine.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I don't know why it's so hard for certain people to understand that sometimes (actual most of the time), all sides are the bad guys.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The Nazis and the Allies. Both the bad guys. Stupid Allies bombing Dresden.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Look up the fire bombing of Tokyo.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

'Sometimes' and even 'most of the time' isn't 'all the time'.

WW2 is an exceptionally rare event in which one side is so fucking awful that the support of the opposition is mandatory to not be a vile piece of shit.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Like the israelis committing genocide you mean.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No. The Israelis committing genocide is the extremely common event in which one side is awful enough that supporting them in unconscionable. It doesn't make their equally genocide-eager but less genocide-capable foes morally necessary to support.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You are going to be in for a real surprise if you learn the things the ANC did to the Apartheid. And the Native Americans did to their colonizers when raising villages. And all these other resistance movements that we now describe as "heroic".

October 7 sure as hell wasn't the cleanest attack ever, but it sure was a lot less genocidal than almost every resistance group that has ever done these kinds of things.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

October 7 sure as hell wasn’t the cleanest attack ever, but it sure was a lot less genocidal than almost every resistance group that has ever done these kinds of things.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah unlike what you seem to believe these resistances against Apartheid and Genocide werent magical fairy tales of the good guys and the bad guys.

Dresden bombing by the way. Poor Germans had to self defense against the genocidal allies according to you?

I'm still waiting on that planned attack video from Hamas that you promised.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

They are both bad, but one of them trades with the rest of the world. That's why most governments lean towards them.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Maybe, there are more sides than just the people with guns and bombs.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Sounds like those people need to pick a side or risk getting gunned down or bombed.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't justify the bombing of hospitals and civilians. Nobody likes Hamas but they're the result of Israel's illegal annexation of Palestinian territories and subsequent genocide.

What do you think the Palestinians who had their house and families expropriated, blown up and/or resettled by an Apartheid State will do? Not like/join the guys who want to get rid of Israel more?

Before Israel's bombing campaign, Hamas wasn't very popular among Palestinians, now however I assume Israel gave Hamas way more recruits.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians,

That's not true in the least.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The state of Israel is older than Hamas and Israel bombing Palestinians started before 7th of October 2023. I think the establishment of Hamas in 1987 and rising popularity till they got elected on Gaza in 2007 can be fairly attributed to Israel's bombing, displacement and apartheid rule of civilians.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They aren’t far right or far anything. They are an indigenous justified resistance to occupation with an Islamic outlook and foundation. If you want to support a leftist resistance group there’s the PFLP but they aren’t fighting the colonizers to the scale Hamas is.

Hamas has always allowed elections and asked for it. It is the corrupt [also secular] Palestinian Authority that wouldn’t allow for elections to happen.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

I'm sorry, but from what I know of Islam, "Islamic outlook and foundation" = far right. To be fair, I would say the same if you replaced Islamic with "Christian" or "Jewish." Seems to me, without the religious us vs them, this would be a few degrees easier to solve.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree with this, but Hamas was created by Israel, and now Israel is bombing all of Gaza because of Hamas. It really seems like Israel has been planning this genocide for a loooong time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In the same vein, Israel's right-wing regime was in no small part created by Islamist hostilities towards Israel and Jewish people from the very start

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Do you mean prior to the Israeli occupation of Palestine in 1967? Because I think it's somewhat reasonable to be hostile towards an occupational force.

Not a gotcha I'm genuinely curious at what point in history you are referring to, apologies if it sounds antagonistic.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (6 children)

How are you just casually missing 20 years of history before that? Not to mention the preceeding 1000 years.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Not only an occupational force, but one extending colonial rule with arguably as bad or worse treatment of the native populace (and no, jews moving to Israel are not native to the land just because that was true a long time ago and they have a book telling them it is so).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

who thought hamas was communist?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Weird, didn't know that people thought well of Hamas...

I kind of hate this meme format though because it's normally used to erect straw men, in my experience.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I kind of hate this meme format though because it's normally used to erect straw men, in my experience.

Boy do I have some news for you

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Am I supposed to ask what it is?

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