this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2025

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this is not satire this is not satire this is not satire (lemmy.cafe)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

I'm kinda done trying to have some sort of anti-stance with this. AI reminds me too much of smartphones, where anybody who didn't have one was an asshole, ignorant stupid old person blah. I held out on a smartphone for something like ten years, just because they were pricey, I had my dumbphone and PC, I didn't need one. Eventually you just couldn't do adult business effectively without one and there I stood with an iPhone 4 when 3G was getting ready to disappear.

Everyone does nothing but piss and moan about their phones, now, all the "normal" people have been sucked into the vortex that created the "neckbeard", and we live in a dystopia where everyone can't seem to leave the house without their government tracking device. It didn't matter at all back when they were hot and new, every kid had to have one and now we're fucked.

It's the same with AI. People jumped on that shit scary fast, I think GenZ was desperate to have something that felt like "their" technology. Once I heard the scientists acting like people were stupid for being anti-AI, then I knew it was over. The upper-middle-class has spoken, all you can do now is decide to get treated like crap. Capital wants AI, and what baby wants, baby gets. They have learned to whip you with your own children to make you obey.

My favorite use for Copilot is using it to translate normal declarative sentences into that awful passive-aggressive language they use in offices because they just can't have the terrifying confrontation of, "I put all that information in the last email, please read it again." It's really good at that because it's been trained on everything you've probably ever sent though Outlook.

That shit's an arbitrary class barrier, so it's good that you can use Copilot to translate sentences into White Woman to learn office talk the way I can use SpanishDict to translate my English into Spanish and back. There wasn't really a way to do that before, and now you can study it and learn it so you can deal with the fucked up social requirements that go into a job that pays above the median wage.

Otherwise I have no profitable use for it. I desperately need to learn one.

So yeah, start using the shit out of it or get kicked out the airlock. Sucks for the artists but capital wants change and you've already lost. Yeah, I don't really want to get good at anything, either, if this thing's just gonna suck it up, take my skills and make me go work at McDonald's anyway after decades of dedication. Love how technology empowers like 2/10ths of the people and throws most of us under the bus, again and again.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

What a dumb asshole.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

AI could make this less pixelated...but so could whatever humans and/or bots took the screenshot and shared it everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago

I pressed the demo button on a keyboard in a music store once.

My second album will be out next month if anyone is interested.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I to have no talent and am unable to create traditional art.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

But what about getting likes without any effort or personal involvement??! /s

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I’m tired.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago

if traditional art is transphobic how are drag queens a thing

(i know drag !== trans but still)

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

-More Creative
-Creates the same thing over and over
-Cannot create new things like an overfull wine glass without reference images

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

The only thing it can do is regurgitate.

I think it has some value. I've been enjoying political deep fakes. Like that one of trump sucking musk toes.

I also think AI has some value for artist to use as a tool. Not to fully create pieces but to help.

If it's used in that way it's more ethical.

In contrast I've been using software in a similar way for at least 20 years. For instance, if I'm working on a painting, I often start with a real photograph. (My own or free to use reference image from a source giving permission).

I put it in Photoshop and use filters to increase edge contrast. Then I create a sketch over it. I print the sketch to scale and then transfer it to my canvas or paper. Or use it to make digital painting.

Another thing I do is use filters in Photoshop (the cutout one) to help me better able to see blocks of color changes. Because human perception makes it difficult for us to actually perceive these.

I then reference that image during the painting process.

Now that's not using AI. But I am using software. Ai can be used similarly though.

With a specific AI you can apply a painting style of one image to another. This was actually the first free AI type art. It was called deep dream or something like that. About 5 years ago. The website is still up but doesn't offer this anymore. But I found one that does.

So yeah you upload two images. A photo you took. And a painting you made. And set the percentage of change.

And it can help you plan a painting by making a version that will have your painting style applied. It's actually kinda awesome.

But as you can imagine you could upload someone else's photograph. And someone else's art piece.

Stealing their style.

I still think this specific AI tool has the most value for artist to use.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't have time to read replies like this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Okay then. Just gives outline of how I use Photoshop and AI as a tool for traditional art.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

To be fair, sourcing vegan-friendly art supplies is often significantly more frustrating than finding vegan food. But as others have said, doing - do I call it 'traditional digital' art? - is going to have a much smaller environmental impact than AI generation systems that are dependent on servers. A used Thinkpad x230 > Midjourney?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Also wanna add that in theory I'm not against AI art generation, only the way it's usually implemented. All creativity is derivative, and as long as the user is remixing free and public domain content, I think the gained accessibility for far more people to bring their expressions to life where they otherwise would not have been able to, is worth far more than the perceived threats felt by a stagnant copy monopolist industry.

But the key thing here is proper implementation. It's like every time we get a new toy, we forget all over again that software freedom is a moral imperative in all forms of software.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Freedom relies on consent and mutual reciprocity, otherwise it's exploitation. AI art diffusion models that scraped digital art portfolios and did not gain the consent of the artists nor did the artists get compensation is exploitation full stop. There is no freedom in exploitation.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

None of the hypothetical methods I described would do that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

None of the hypothetical methods I described would do that.

So it's exploitive then.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No, it's not. Why are you like this?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The present models are, is the point i think the other person is making.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I haven't looked into it too much, because I don't bother to use these things myself. But if I remember, there are some systems that are open-source, can be run locally, and then a person could train those systems on only public domain and freely licensed works. That is the kind I'm talking about, so bringing up the systems I'm not talking about is just a strawman.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I haven’t looked into it too much

The closest thing to what you're discussing is what's built over at db0

https://aihorde.net/

However what you're hypothesizing cannot exist, due to the nature of a diffusion model. The source that the images are generated from, all of that was stolen in 2021. It was illegally scraped.

AIHorde is moving in the right direction, but we need a system where the people who's source work is being scraped need to either consent to the use of their artistic labor, through copy left practices. Or they deserve to be compensated through royalties.

In latestage capitalism the only power is that which lies within capitol. That has been stolen by the large AI companies. What you're proposing through your hypotheticals is closing the barn door after the horses have got out.

That is the kind I’m talking about, so bringing up the systems I’m not talking about is just a strawman.

I'm actively refuting what you're proposing because not only does it not exist, but it's currently impossible, due to the nature of the tech it's based on. This is not a strawman argument, this is a refutation of a naive take that does nothing to push forward the tech in a direction which you yourself would like it to go.

Sorry to be such a wet blanket. If you'd like to know more about Diffusion models and what they stole here's a great place to start. https://systemicalternatives.org/2023/06/06/the-controversy-of-ai-art-theft/

If you want to work towards what your hypotheticals state you could consider contributing to aihorde.net.

My response again is from the viewpoint of someone who is constantly refuting "Why don't we just...." naval gazing and how trolls and other bad faith actors hide behind that type of language.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

When you say, "However what you’re hypothesizing cannot exist, due to the nature of a diffusion model. The source that the images are generated from, all of that was stolen in 2021. It was illegally scraped.", are you referring to Laion-5B?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

And others yes. It really depends on where you look and who you ask. I think Laion was the beginning of the end but some people say it was Google in 2010 or so

https://www.adweek.com/lostremote/google-set-to-open-image-recognition-technology-via-apis/

Some go even earlier. But I think wholesale theft started around 2020-2021 at scale. Arxiv below for reference.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.08402

Also I really do apologize for my tone earlier. I've given all of the beneficial doubt I can really.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Yeah, I'm sorry but none of this seems to add up. I read the book you linked, the entire thing, and I didn't really learn anything new from it. In my own searches I've found a number of competing image generation systems, most of them just use Stable Diffusion - including Horde, which makes sense as it is open-source and readily available. But others have their own solutions, and some even use their own datasets. I've also done other searches and found a variety of instructions on how people can put together their own datasets. Between all of the options, it seems pretty clear to me that even now it is entirely possible for people to use these AI tools without ever needing to come into any contact with "stolen" (ie., copyright infringed - it's not theft) artwork.

But I'm not going to link to any of these things because I don't want to endorse or promote anything without taking sufficient time to be really sure that they are in fact ethical, which honestly I'm probably not going to do at least for the time being, since I have no need to use any of these anyway. But yeah, ethical ai art is entirely possible, no copyright ever needs to be infringed, and this is something anyone can do today if they're inclined to make the searches and assemble free source images themselves.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I understand what you're saying the point to me that sticks out was the usage of "hypothetical", which to me would mean things that don't exist, which wouldn't be a strawman as i understand it. With that being said I'm genuinely not trying to be an ass, just explaining the way I perceived the comments, I hope it's not needed to say, but I meant no offense in my reply of your comment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

You're correct. Trolls love to hide in grey area naval gazing questions. My kneejerk reaction is to directly refute and shut it down. I definitely err on the side of asshole now though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No offense taken. It is still a strawman though, because regardless of the realness of what I'm talking about, they're still referring to something different and then attacking that as if it is the thing I'm talking about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

There is no strawman I'm attacking. I'm addressing you directly. I'm not reforming or re-addressing your argument, I'm refuting it.

Your premise is flawed and as you state yourself it comes from a place of naivety as you don't understand the tech. Which is fine, we don't have to understand everything, but don't cry foul when your premise is corrected in a public forum. I replied up the chain with what you could do and projects that are close to what you propose. I also gave you resources that you can go through to learn more if you have the interest.

But it doesn't change the fact that maybe the greatest theft of artistic labor in our lifetimes has already happened and there's very little independent artists can do about it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago

What art are they looking out? Artists have been making powerful pieces with hidden messages and symbols since forever. Even graffiti can be used to disrupt and inform. Yes, there is garbage, but there's garbage everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

theres no thumb just another index finger ...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

They have reverse toe thumbs.

Everyone with this is one of my evil twins.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

Digglet thumbs

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

🎣

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