this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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    The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

    And yet... linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as "not growing the userbase"

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    [–] [email protected] 47 points 2 weeks ago (20 children)

    Windows users and Linux users are not seeking the same thing from their machines. The common mistake I often see from Linux advocates.

    From personal experience, when I was a Windows user, I didn't care (or even know) about privacy, open-source software, nor owning my machine. I didn't care if I had to sign up for a Microsoft account, and I never changed defaults ever (except for my wallpaper). I just wanted the machine to turn-on, work, and play some games.

    Why am I bringing this up? Because Linux requires the user care about their machine and defaults. You need to know your architecture, graphics card, and threat-model. You need to know what your apps are called and where they come from. You need to know what tools you need to troubleshoot (and devs will not help you). This is the biggest the pain-point of Linux. Do not succumb to the survivorship bias of RTFM or command-line.

    This issue cannot be fixed from simplifying Linux interfaces (though we should do this anyway!). The soul of Linux is adventure, collaboration, and tinkering. To get the most from your machine, you're going to have to interact with several communities. This is what makes Linux great, and frankly I do not think we should kill this for the general public - this is how you get enshittification.

    The general public needs to understand that incompetence (being brain-dead) will lead to misery. It is simply the rule of the land. You need to care and you need to collaborate. We should not welcome nor accommodate users that refuse to do this.

    [–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    My wife is on NixOS, because she wanted a system that would be exactly the same if it died. She doesn't know Linux from Mac or Windows; She doesn't care about privacy or where apps come from, only that it operates the exact same everyday. (And Windows could not satisfy this requirement)

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    [–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    This means that there's plenty of room for companies to sell curated lists of apps that just magically work. I would buy the shit out of that for a work machine that just needs to work, no matter what. I'd also pay for something like that for my mom or my fiancΓ© neither of them are particularly tech interested but will happily use something if it works.

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    [–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Kinda insightful, as someone who loves UX

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    [–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I’ve used a Mac since forever. But I started using FOSS apps. Then I created a Hackintosh, until it borked. Then I installed ZorinOS and almost didn’t need to fix the Hackintosh. I did fix it, but Zorin convinced me that Linux is legit and I’m going all in on it.

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    [–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Write the kernel like a worm virus so it has self-maintenance and also self-replicates, spreading Linux to every connected machine it can. 🀑

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    [–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago

    Since you find some motive to rebuild the kernel in your own way or correcting bugs from 80s cli applications you'll be quite there...

    [–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

    Linux isn't hard anymore because I have ChatGPT to come up with all the command lines for me. And they work 60% of the time!

    [–] [email protected] 27 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    I recently switched to Linux after a lifetime with Windows. Last night I went to install a backup program on my media server but it couldn't see the destination drive. I downloaded a partition manager and it crashed trying to load the external drive. DDG'd the issue, but I couldn't find a clear cause/effect that applied to me. So I downloaded a different partition manager and backup program, and they worked right out of the box. Turns out the non-working apps were written for Gnome and the working apps were written for KDE, (which is my desktop environment). It was a very frustrating half hour, but it pales in comparison to the time I've spent troubleshooting (storage) driver issues in Windows. The point I'm making is, Linux isn't really that hard to learn, it's just unfamiliar and therefore scary. Getting past your fear unlocks a whole new world of wonder and possibilities! 🐧

    [–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago

    Oh yeah, Windows storage driver issues are great if you need to kill time. Nothing better than your Windows installer claiming there's no disk. Great in combination with missing touchpad drivers. But hey, at least I found out it can indeed be installed without a working mouse and that includes installing the storage driver!

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    [–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

    With Windows, there is 1 current version of Windows (11), 1 "almost current" (10), 1 "outdated but you'll maybe see it" (8.x) and only a few "you'll probably only see this in obscure situations" versions. Linux has as many "parent" distros/package management systems (apt, rpm, pacman, etc.). This definitely complicates things, as each distro family does things slightly differently.

    And we haven't even touched the window manager/DE choices, of which there are a ton (as opposed to Windows). "Combinatorical explosion" maybe isn't the right phrase, but you get the idea


    Debian with i3wm is wildly different from Fedora Plasma.

    This is all a good thing though, as Linux users tend to like the choice and flexibility


    but it does mean that the "right way" to do something on Linux is very dependent on your particular setup, which isn't the case with Windows.

    (I have used Linux for the last 20+ years, and it's definitely my preferred setup, and am lucky enough that I rarely use Windows for work, and never for personal use.)

    [–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    That's why we got together and agreed on one version of Linux to recommend to new adopters.

    Linux VersionOkay, maybe we should have reconsidered when Hannah Montana Linux won the vote...

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    [–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    I don't even understand the question.

    [–] [email protected] 84 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    I mean, people are gonna bite my head off for this, but most non technical folks are turned off by someone calling them stupid... That's what "RTFM" sounds like. I think there needs to be a culture change to drive adoption, but stuff like the Steam Deck is helping a lot.

    [–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

    I understand the impetus behind RTFM - It happens when the user failed to do basic troubleshooting and expects others to do their thinking. Being blown off doesn't feel great, but other people's time is valuable, and in the end your system is your own responsibility.

    [–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

    Make Local LUGs Great Again.

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    [–] [email protected] 46 points 2 weeks ago

    Even technical folks aren't huge fans of RTFM.

    If I'm doing something incredibly interesting, and I'm asking for help, I should RTFM.

    If I'm doing something routine, we can (and usually do, now), make it simple enough not to need a manual.

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