From Vaxry's response:
opinion - has no place in a serious blogpost
Sir, what do you think a BLOG is for?
this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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Who gives a fucking shit lol. Guy makes software I like, I use it. I don't care if he has slaves on treadmill generating his electricity.
I stopped using it because of a couple shitty interactions on Discord. I don't know anything about the developer himself but the company he keeps sucks. Using the word "cucked" when talking about breaks in dependencies... and being told "see if I care" when pointing out a race condition I found in initialization that caused problems with multimonitor setups.
No thanks. Sway works great. No need for eye candy.
Take every opinion from Drew DeVault with a grain of salt.
The guy who develops hyprland is a known transphobe, I'm surprised this is just now coming out.
That usually isn't a problem as long as they keep it to themselves and away from the community. There are many Foss developers who are like that - they don't cause a controversy. This one seems to be different and openly toxic.
Your first mistake was joining a Discord group for a software product. Github pages / bug-tracker or GTFO.
Fucking right? Let alone a open source project.
this guy just learned about discord general chats lol
they're all this bad, and also they're absolutely dogshit for open source software so I have no idea why people make them
I just switched to hyprland and although the discord general chat isn't for everyone, they have been helpful when I ask stupid questions and need a little help.
It sucks that cool projects like hyprland are usually riddled with toxic weirdos that ruin it. It also sucks that there's not much to choose in the wayland space that's usable and actively developed but I refuse to use hyprland after seeing this.
I can personally vouch for how toxic the Discord server and its moderators/admins are. Went there for support (Hyprland was crashing on startup on AMD, sway worked fine), and was told something along the lines of "if you can't figure this out you're stupid and you should stop using Linux". Figured out the issue on my own and stopped using and recommending Hyprland after that.
I wonder if this comes from the only help / discussion being on Discord which has an infamously horrible search feature.
A forum could even be indexed by search engines so no need for:
- A discord account
- Annoying the developers with frequently asked questions
Vaxry's themselves does this all the time. He's an asshole. Like I get OSS developers don't owe anyone anything, but some people think that means they can be an asshole to their users for no reason too.
Just look at this for example. Someone asked a clarifying question and Vaxry basically said "stop making noise". Ironically producing more noise instead of just, idk, answering them? https://github.com/hyprwm/Hyprland/issues/1817
Sorry to be dragging a comment out of the aether as I read into Hyprland controversies, but its absolutely wild this guy was rude across the span of an entire week about a pretty typical issue request, and then later down the road was like "it was one bad comment I might have been having a bad day" and its like... Dude it was 7 days
I empathize a lot with this comment.
In tech (though I would guess as in many other technical domains), many people do seem to easily bully people for not knowing things or making mistakes. I'm guessing it's just people having high insecurities themselves, it's even more of an ego thing when considering that computer things are considered as a "nerd" pastime (a group considering itself "smart"). Not knowing things - even things that we would have thought are really simple - should be OK on an help channel as long as you're not abusing the helpers' patience.
I've been a witness of these situation countless times, the sane way of handling this for me have been to just consider that these are mostly people externalizing their poor self esteem and to just continue conversation (at worst with the other people) as normal.
Hyprland dev's response to blog post: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity
The final bit is interesting. Vaxry says Q (who was openly bigoted) got punished, but doesn't mention prisj (who was slightly less open about it).
#generaldoes indeed sometimes have jokes that some people might treat as "controversial".
And if you really need a place with controversial jokes, split it off from your support server or something.
What a tone-deaf response, yikes.
His response is perfectly rational. You need to stop getting offended over every small thing on the internet.
treating people respectfully is not getting offended. please touch some grass and open your eyes.
Did you read his response? These were a few small incidents blown out of proportion. Maybe grow a thicker skin?
that's not really the point considering this didn't occur in a vacuum. this one event can come to just be a grift and what I said will still be true.
I only have two things to say:
- Stop bringing your politics into free software and creating unproductive drama
- Stop being so fragile to get offended by random teenagers on the internet
Yeahhh, he's like "everything was taken out of context to smear me", he shows the context and it doesn't make him look any better.
It's a shame bc I really wanted to get into hyprland, but I won't get involved with a project that is okay harassing people for being trans.
All this over some discord server drama. I cant blame the dev for wanting to code and not waste his time moderating.
That douchebag can't even moderate himself. I wasn't considering trying out hyprland, but after this I wouldn't feel safe running his code on any of my computers. I can imagine that it would do some "prank" if it found out that I'm thinking differently
Then don't run a discord instance?
"Hey, the server is getting pretty toxic and I can't be bothered moderating it - this is no longer an official communication channel, I'm not going to be hanging out here anymore, if you need help ask in the GitHub discussion forum"
It's the developer's responsibility to moderate the discord server properly.
The developer owes you nothing.
The developer doesn't owe us anything, but if they're creating an online community like Discord there are inherent responsibilities that come with that. If they don't want to moderate, then they shouldn't create a Discord/Matrix/Whatever server.
Just like how even if the developer doesn't owe us anything, that doesn't mean it's fine for them to push malware as an update to their previously fine code after they've established trust.
It's the moderation staff's responsibility. Sorry for nitpicking, I understand in this case it's likely the same people.
I just get triggered when I hear that an open source software developer should have any responsibilities at all (maybe apart from some extreme examples), and I wouldn't like this idea to stick in anyone's head.
He doesn't have the responsibility to open a discord server for his project, absolutely agree.
But if you open a server, you do in fact have to moderate it.
This is a good enough reason to fork a project and establish a new community with new norms.
People like you are insane
I mean if he is the lead dev, then I doubt this makes much sense.
Hyprland is itself a fork of wlroots, a project that the author of this post created, so this has happened before and they definitely have the skills to bootstrap a new project.
Hyprland is itself a fork of wlroots, a project that the author of this post created
No, it is not. wlroots is plumbing containing parts a compositor commonly would need to implement, and many compositors - including hyprland - sit on top of that to avoid reinventing the wheel over and over again.
Ah yeah I had it wrong. Thanks for the correction.
It's not a fork of wlroots. wlroots is a library to assist developers in creating Wayland compositors.
Yeah my mistake. Thanks for the correction.
the moderators of the Discord server engaged in a harassment campaign against a transgender user, including using their moderator privileges to edit the pronouns in their username from “they/she” to “who/cares”
Well, apparently those moderators care. Why else edit it?
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