this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2025
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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

I don’t think many Christians would actually argue for that first point tbh. It’s not something Biblically portrayed as one of God’s gifts. Free will is portrayed as something that was given conditionally, but taking from the tree of knowledge and specifically eating the fruit of knowledge is known as man’s first sin in the Bible.

I think it’s a bit of a metaphor for a parent wanting to shield their child from the harshness of reality, but as the sheltered child grows older they often want to know more about the outside world and in doing so become exposed to the cruelty. This was my own experience with religion growing up. A teacher of mine one day sat us down and pleaded the above with our class, as many of us grew to see through the veil of how reality looked.

In retrospect I think some things about the world make sense to not be told about, depending on one’s age. However, I think other things should never be hidden, have been hidden, or done in other cases.

Side note: I think the idea of God’s plan is for people to hold love for one another. Lots of people lose sight of what they are called to do and how they are to act though. They’re called to love their neighbor as their self, called to love their enemy, and called to forgive others for their transgressions. I personally think people are called to do good works in conjunction with holding faith, as people are called to act righteously in this life.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Did Calvin write this post?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Thought terminating cliche

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

You have the freedom to choose God or face an eternity of unimaginable suffering.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (12 children)

No good god would make an unlasting punishment. if you have forever, then even Hitler, Dahmer would have enough time for a finite punishment. Even the worst people in the world don't deserve a unlasting punishment.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well, since this is a religious discussion, I'm a Christian. It's always God.

Job 1:6-12 very clearly shows God granting permission for Satan to test Job.

1 Kings 22:19-22 shows the "court in heaven" and God soliciting ideas from spirits for enticing Ahab to attack Ramoth Gilead, where he will die. When a good suggestion is made, God grants permission.

Exodus 10:1-2 states clearly that God hardened Pharaoh's heart to not let the slaves go, so that God could display his "signs" (plagues).

Satan is a liar, and the father of lies.

Romans 9:19-21 NIV

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Wow, sounds like a cruel deity that's definitely not worthy of worship.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (17 children)

Hey, at least you're judging based on the facts of what the Bible says. God is who He is. He's not campaigning. You disagree with Him, but at least it's really Him.

Of course, that puts you in the same position as Job. You want to judge God. You want to put him on trial. You disagree with Him.

And if you have the opportunity to question Him directly, you'll say the same thing Job said.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (10 children)

Did god not have the power to give us free will without also giving us evil?

  • Had the power but opted not to: god is himself some part evil

  • Didn't have the power, did the best he could with the tools he had: god is not omnipotent.

Pick one.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Going by the Bible, it's both. He acted with malice and proved himself to not be omnipotent many times.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Jod introduced the idea of freewill to the board.

Lucifer said "That's a bad idea, chief. Free will would ruin them."

Jod cast him out.

Humans fucked everything up.

Jod sent his CTO, Jesus to try and fix it. It went poorly.

Lucifer said " I told you so"

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

How dare you bring logic into god's house!

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