this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2025
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 hours ago

Woa, hey now. Too close. I think I'm going to have to back up a truckload of apologia. BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP - is it there? Is it up to the line? Good.

Unloads why republics should be ethnically pure, but spun in a way that vaguely unsharps the truths jagged edge, while pining for a time gone by and fear mongering to whatever would be mob that could dawn balaclavas and facemasks to terrorize local neighborhoods with bigoted chants and flags in hand.

I say no, fascist, back to hell with you - and stay there. That is your home, that is where you should stay, forever and ever and ever - and if for some reason they should be let back out, it's up to the entirety of the human species to slap them straight back down to the depths that they came from.

Give me liberty, or give me dead fascists - because the latter has a tendency to produce the former.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 hours ago

So the thing is classical liberals were (and are) capable of a lot of damage without Fascism. Fascism is a specific ideology. Not the suffering people are capable of creating. It's important to understand that your normal democracy is perfectly capable of creating mass suffering.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

None of that is fascism. It's just run of the mill liberalism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago

Same difference, just one has a smile and bright colors.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

While not exclusive to it, they are elements of fascism.

It's funny that we have all these lists and essays and books on how fascist ideology and policy is a confluence of many such elements, yet people still act as tough "is this person/party/state fascist?" is a simple yes or no question with no gray area.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 hours ago

Its arguable that its better to define them by the intent of the ideology rather than just their outcomes.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

There's a joke that if you ask 10 people to define fascism, you'll get 10 different answers.

It's an imprecise term whose definition changes with every author who makes a try of it. Even the more popular lists of traits like Eco's or Paxton's have a lot of issues and contradictions which ppl have pointed out.

Any posts that even mention fascism always devolve into ppl trying and failing to agree on its definition, the point of this deflective practice enabling ppl to uphold their own liberal democracies as being sacred and less genocidal.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Anyone downvoting this, should be able to explain why what the the US and European powers did to Africa, Asia, and the americas during the 1700-1900s, was any better or fundamentally different than what fascist formulations from 1920-1945 did. And those atrocities were all done using a far more stable form of government: bourgeois parliamentarism / liberal democracy.

People really need to read Losurdo's - Liberalism, a counter-history. Liberals invented the slave trade, and the victorian holocausts. The only difference between them and the fascists, are that they're far better at colonialism and genocide than the fascists were.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

I keep trying to tell people classical liberals were bastards. There's this perception that just because we can vote that means we can't be the bad guys. It's an ideological catechism that actually fits with the above picture. If Fascism is just whenever mass suffering and death is perpetrated but also World War 2 non voting systems run by strong men then it gives the modern person living in a democracy permission to stop paying attention. After all they can vote and their guy would never.

We need to get this through people's heads, stop putting flashy words on human rights violations and start holding leaders accountable. Because a culture of not being accountable is how you get actual Fascism.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Yes I know my enemies. They're the teachers that taught me to fight me. Compromise. Conformity. Assimilation. Submission. Ignorance. Hypocrisy. Brutality. The Elite... all of which are American dreams...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

All of which are American dreams...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

All of which

[–] [email protected] 24 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

when I think of fascism I first think of America, then Nazi Germany

Not that Nazi Germany wasn't far worse but America is a right now thing, not an 80 years ago thing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

For me it’s Germany Italy Spain USA Portugal

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Germany and Italy are making good progress to make it back onto the list

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

Id say Italy had a Donald Trump 15 years ago.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 hours ago

Hot take: forcing children to pledge allegiance should be more concerning than the exact posture they are ordered to make while doing so.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Didn't they quickly stop this after it became the Nazis favorite thing?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

They only changed it in 1942, which is 9 years after Hitler rose to power and 3 years before his reign ended.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It

When the United States entered WWII, the future head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, bemoaned that his country was fighting the wrong enemy. The Nazis, as he explained, were pro-capitalist Aryan Christians, whereas the true enemy was godless communism and its resolute anti-capitalism. After all, the U.S. had, only some 20 years prior, been part of a massive military intervention in the U.S.S.R., when fourteen capitalist countries sought—in the words of Winston Churchill—to “strangle the Bolshevik baby in its crib.” Dulles understood, like many of his colleagues in the U.S. government, that what would later become known as the Cold War was actually the old war, as Michael Parenti has convincingly argued: the one they had been fighting against communism since its inception.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

You left off Hitler being impressed by Henry Ford.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Being very impressed by US segregation laws too.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago

The nazi's eugenics programs were copy-pasted from California's even, they were explicit about that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

And US scientific racism too

[–] [email protected] 71 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

Never forget, the fruit of the tree of capitalism is fascism.

Capitalism unrestrained and left to do its thing, as it has, always leads to fascism. Fascism is the takeover of the state by the capitalists.

This is why fascism is blooming all over the western world. The global capitalist economy is simply in full bloom sitting on entirely captured nation states and fruiting.

The fruit being concentration camps, war, poverty, and scapegoating. Anything to blame literally anyone and everything else for all the inhuman malice the capitalists are doing to attempt to satiate their unquenchable greed.

If anyone still cares about maybe not ending the world for humanity, the capital markets must be destroyed, and speculative investment by passive robber barons not actively participating in laboring to produce products and services must be outlawed. But don't worry, we'll fade into the oblivion of greed made climate change out of cowardice. We'll probably be grateful to die to that after the Fascists have had their fun.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago

I get the frustration with unrestrained capitalism and the real harm it can do—wealth concentration, exploitation, and rampant inequality are major issues that can breed extremist movements. However, to claim fascism is an inevitable “fruit” of capitalism ignores a whole host of other historical, cultural, and political factors that shape authoritarian regimes. There are plenty of capitalist societies that have never slipped into fascism because democratic institutions, social safety nets, and regulations acted as guardrails.

It’s also important to remember that while corporations can capture political systems, it takes more than greed to sustain a fascist state—there’s often a strong dose of nationalism, militarism, and scapegoating of minorities involved. Lumping all of these under “capitalism leads directly to concentration camps” oversimplifies a complex issue. Yes, we should criticize harmful capitalist excesses, but we need to be precise in how we analyze the broader political environment that actually fosters fascist ideologies.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Fascism is the takeover of the state by the capitalists.

What. Capitalism is already the takeover of the state by capitalists. The state apparatus is just the means by which the dominant class exerts its power.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

It is inevitable that capitalists will conquer their state, but with constant vigilance, for a time, capitalism can and is used as an engine to serve society, so long as it is heavily regulated and hobbled. The Nordic nations for example.

It's when the capitalists begin to be allowed to influence their government, and convince the people THEY can live larger than their neighbors if it weren't for all the social equity evil government enforces, capitalism's signature siren call.

The Nordic countries still have free to roam policies. Capitalism here capturing their own regulators and being allowed to warp public opinion with blatant self serving lies through for profit media pulpits make some Americans eager to shoot other Americans.

I'm not for capitalism at all because it eventually leads here, to fascism, and eventually someone in power will be dumb or corrupt enough to let their guard down. But we let our capitalists conquer our government, as have several western nations. And here we are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago

Nope. The Nordic countries are still controlled by capitalists, they (akd most of western Europe as well) just have given the workers some welfare policies in order to appease them and stop any revolutionary ideas. It's no coincidence that these policies were in place while the Eastern bloc was around and they began to dismantle the welfare state as soon as the USSR fell and they felt they could get away with it.

(Disclaimer: I'm not saying that the welfare state is evil, and that we'd be better with the shitty US way of doing things)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

It is inevitable that capitalists will conquer their state

This I disagree. While we're seeing it keep winning and winning, and we might be put through all sorts of unimaginable hell's as it keeps winning, but human societies have been here before. A lot, in fact. People like to point at Mao's communist China and how bad that was, without knowing about the capitalist warlord China that preceeded it. Conquering the state by their means, such as violence or compromising/begging in grand halls? No, we'll never win, but nature always wins, it is the one true God we're all at mercy to. Back in the day of native central-american hyper-capitalism/imperialism/monarchism such as the Mayans, Aztec's, etc. where the population was literally everyone being enslaved to worship and human sacrifices, salt mines and pyramid building. While we don't exactly know how it happened (probably plague, it's always plague) but what is evident is that they consciously rejected hierarchy, dispersed into thousands of different tribes across the Americas, practicing amazingly complicated distributions of land and trade amongst eachother, totally free from any central forms of leadership but a series of central comittee's, consciously rejecting individualism, consciously rejecting laws in favour of reason, consciously rejecting arbitrary authority, consciously choosing a discussion over coffee and tobacco before resorting to war, even consciously giving preferential treatment to slaves they captured. Instead of labouring over pyramids and mines, they built social housing literal fucking palaces that thanks to modern archaeology tech has unearthed these things by the hundreds of thousands. And even then, by the time all that was so ancient it was all buried and overgrown, when the Europeans first came over and saw the garden forests they've maintained for millenia, the remarkable intelligence displayed by people who couldn't write or didn't wear pants, that women had autonomy! It was quite enlightening to those Europeans, so much so that they wrote plays that questioned European authority through sock puppets and fictional natives used as vehicles to promote ideas such as liberty, freedom, and atheism, without being imprisoned or executed for heresy. It was so popular, so was tobacco and coffee, upon which these certain Natives would come and speak in these French salons, the very same ones that great European Enlightenment thinkers frequented. While European culture has yet to assimilate to (Native) American culture, it has been reeling since, and the European ideaology of Kings has been shaken ever since.

Keep pushing, act as if you're already free.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

I feel like it's unamerican in regards to the values our country espouses, even though it completely and utterly fails to uphold them.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 hours ago

The purpose of a system is what it does

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

"American values" are just a smokescreen, they aren't failed, more they serve their purpose of obfuscation well.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Nah man, Americans have values. Freedom, perseverance, independence, self expression. It's just that we have utterly failed to uphold those values in our actions. Even in the beginning, talking about slavery being terrible but still allowing it for political reasons right at the founding.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Those values only really served as a way for the ruling class that founded America to justify itself. They weren't genuine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I'm talking about the shared cultural values of the society we have today, views shared by most Americans. Most Americans like free speech. Most Americans like liberty. Et cetera and so on. These are things that are part of our culture. You aren't any less of a person for recognizing that these are values that are held by this culture.

I am also saying that despite culturally sharing in these values, our society also fails to actually support them in very big ways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

And I am telling you that the cultural aspects came from a desire from the ruling class to support freedom for Capitalists to do what they want, and morally justify it. That's why these values never seem to actually be supported, just gestured towards.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

"Espouses but fails to uphold" sounds more like negligence to me. Negligence would be allowing fascism through inaction (like democrat administration). But the US does far worse than that (funding genocide and propping up fascism elsewhere)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Nah, I liked how I phrased it. We've been failing to uphold our ideals since the beginning, even Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite who hated slavery but sure as hell did a lot of it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

Jefferson didn't hate slavery, he even pledged support for France against Haiti's slave rebellion.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Feels like imperializem merits to be further down the line, if not the last panel.

But yes, good memetics in this meme, gg.

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