this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2025
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Privacy

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From the new terms:

When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Does having a ToS mean that Firefox is no longer FOSS? Freedom 0 of FOSS is: "The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose". Isn't that violated if you can only use the software under the condition of accepting terms of service?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think they mean Mozilla services such as ai, sync, etc. The browser itself probably doesn't fall under it.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Mozilla updated their post at the top:

UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible

Gee whizz, like what? What "basic" functionality is missing that can only be solved with a ToS saying they're going to track how I use their browser?

Without it, we couldn't use information typed into Firefox

That's what I needed to see. So it's not missing basic functionality, they just want to make it legal to track your browser usage.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

That's a nice disclaimer. They should clarify that in their privacy policy directly instead of just saying "oh that's not what we meant guys, pinky promise 😉"

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This is unfortunate. I've been advocating for Firefox and managed to switch many of my friends. This is where I draw the line.

Time to switch to something else.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

May I suggest we switch to a gopher or gemini internet?

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[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You draw the line at any TOS?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Good day sir!

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[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So what is a good browser now? Opera?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

No, they are way worse

[–] [email protected] 104 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Firefox "never has and never will" sell your personal data was removed.

https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e

It was moved here, but there is no never will: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/faq

It seems like every company on the web is buying and selling my data. You’re probably no different.

Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you, and we don’t buy data about you.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Search for firefox-tou.
The presence of that now magically removes mentions of privacy and not selling user-data in multiple places.

-    <p>
-        Firefox is independent and a part of the not-for-profit Mozilla, which fights for your online rights, keeps corporate powers in check and makes the internet accessible to everyone, everywhere. We believe the internet is for people, not profit. Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data. You’re in control over who sees your search and browsing history. All that and exceptional performance too.
-    </p>

+    {% if switch('firefox-tou') %}
+      <p>Firefox is independent and a part of the not-for-profit Mozilla, which fights for your online rights, keeps corporate powers in check and makes the internet accessible to everyone, everywhere. We believe the internet is for people, not profit. You’re in control over who sees your search and browsing history. All that and exceptional performance too.</p>
+    {% else %}
+      <p>Firefox is independent and a part of the not-for-profit Mozilla, which fights for your online rights, keeps corporate powers in check and makes the internet accessible to everyone, everywhere. We believe the internet is for people, not profit. Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data. You’re in control over who sees your search and browsing history. All that and exceptional performance too.</p>
+    {% endif %}

Difference here is Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data.

-    <h2 class="c-section-title">The best privacy</h2>
+    {% if switch('firefox-tou') %}
+      <h2 class="c-section-title">Always protected</h2>
+    {% else %}
+      <h2 class="c-section-title">The best privacy</h2>
+    {% endif %}

Pivoting from privacy to security in the tos.

-      <li>
-        <h2>{{ ftl('does-firefox-sell') }}</h2>
-        <p>{{ ftl('nope-never-have', url=url('privacy')) }}</p>
-      </li>
+      {% if not switch('firefox-tou') %}
+        <li>
+          <h2>{{ ftl('does-firefox-sell') }}</h2>
+          <p>{{ ftl('nope-never-have', url=url('privacy')) }}</p>
+        </li>
+      {% endif %}

As you mentioned they will apparently sell your data under tos.

Where does the tos apply and where the mpl now?
They would have removed all those mentions of privacy entirely if the mpl had no use anymore, wouldn't they?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I can't wait for ladybird, firefox is going downhill because of the Mozilla Foundation

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

It felt so weird to upvote this. Thanks for pointing that out, but also uuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggghhhhhhhh

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm paying for a search engine subscription, do I have to pay for a browser too?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Guys, some of you here posted that you gonna switch to a fork. My question is: isn't still the same problem? It seems the problem here is Mozilla, and Mozilla is the creator of Firefox and Gecko. So you suggesting switching to a fork at the end has the same problem that is using Gecko. I don't think it is better than using a Chromium based browser. I mean you still using a Mozilla product. If you really want to avoid Mozilla you should be using Epiphany or wait for Ladybird. I am genuinely asking this because It is not clear enough for me.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It is better than using Chromium, largely because of engine diversity. Mozilla still has a massive say in web standards, and for that I'll continue using them until a better alternative comes out.

Epiphany kinda sucks, and Ladybird isn't a thing yet. So I'll stick with Firefox and its forks until a legitimate challenger appears.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I am still not convinced

Mozilla still has a massive say in web standards

I don't know if we can say this with less than 3% of market share.

until a better alternative comes out.

I like Cromite a lot. Yeah, Brave has a lot of scandals, most of them because trying to make money however they can

largely because of engine diversity.

As an end user, I choose a browser looking for features I need.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Cromite

That's still Chromium though.

As an end user, I choose a browser looking for features I need.

Same, though engine diversity is also a huge factor. I actually used Opera until they abandoned their rendering engine, and then went back to Firefox.

When Firefox doesn't cut it, I use Brave with the crypto BS disabled. It has a great ad blocker and is just as good as other Chrome browsers at compatibility.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Assuming this refers to a new feature, how are they going to implement it? If the browser e.g. phones home, people would be able to spot the change in the source code and just create a fork?

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I read the article but still don't understand what this means:

You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet.

When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

I've seen corporate mission statements that were clearer.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I read it as "you type a URL in the address bar, we'll take you there. You want to search for something using the search bar? We got you, we'll forward your search to the search engine of your choice. All free of charge."

It's just worded in such generic legal wording it makes you gag. But them pointing it out so explicitly just makes me more suspicious lol. I think it's fine for now, just another wall of text to keep an eye on for any future modifications.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"help you .... experience ..... content" = Ads

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

That's the more vicious part of it. How do we know what this experience they want to serve us is. A more pessimistic read could be they sell everything we type to ad companies and claim targeted ads are totally enhancing our experience.

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