Before I get started, if you don’t know what the Library display is here is my initial post about it.
So I did say i would ask my professors about this display to see if they knew who put it up, why it was put up, and if they even knew what the red and black flag meant.
The first professor I talked to was my Political Science one. I entered his office to chat and before I could ask him about the display he asked me about my paper, then proceeded to give me lots of advice for it. That was not what I was ready for but whatever. I then asked him if he saw the display in the library, he said no. I asked if he knew what it was about even if he hadn’t seen it, again he said no. He told me to explain it to him and I did, it was the “soldiers of freedom” display with a bunch of posters. He seemed to sort of know what I was talking about. I asked him if he knew who put it up, he didn’t know but thinks it may have been the Library itself or the Ukrainian “club” at school (its more official than a club but I don’t know what to call it without outing my location). Before i showed him the photos of the posters with the OUN flag I gave him a disclaimer that I was asking a very fair question, and while he is allowed to feel however he wants I would appreciate not being projected on. After he was primed I showed him my phone and asked him what the flag was, in the picture I showed him the Ukrainian flag was also there and he pointed it out, I had to say I was asking about the red one specifically. He looked at it for a bit and said he didn’t know. I tried to push him on it a bit more but he seriously didn’t know. He then asked me if I knew what it was and I said no. He told me that because its on a soldier display it might be that specific militia’s insignia. I wasn’t super happy with this but tried to play it cool.
He then asked if I was interested in this and I said yes. He then said he is a part of the Ukrainian “club” and can take me to the office to ask them about it, I shot this down right away. I tried to push again, “you really don’t know?” He said that he is anti-war and doesn't involve himself with military stuff so he’s unaware of what the insignia means, he finds war and stuff like it objectionable. With that I asked if he found the display objectionable, he got a little thrown off by this and said that we have a large Ukrainian diaspora here and this is their way too show support to their soldiers fighting to protect their territory. He then brought up the surge in Russophobia in Canada, like for example during a heritage day event the Russian pavilion was banned from appearing which is horrible (we both agreed on that) was one of the big ones, and that many Russians have to stay quiet nowadays even if they support Ukraine (this probably isn’t what he meant but is the only good Russian the one that supports Ukraine?). He then asked me if I found the display objectionable, I had to lie and say I didn’t really know. It was an odd and very disappointing conversation.
I couldn’t really find an opening to ask Tovarish Tomato’s question but I did when I asked my History professor about it. (I don’t know how to tag people)
During office hours for my History professor I spent the first half discussing the class material (which I wont talk about here to save you guys from that). After that I asked him if he saw the display in the library, he said no. I then explained it to him to give him an idea. After he understood I skipped the question about who could’ve displayed it as he had no idea it even existed. So I went straight to telling him that four out of the 24 posters had this symbol on it and I wanted to know if he knew what it was. When I showed him the flag he also said he didn’t know, he asked if I knew and I lied saying I didn’t know (I don’t know if he believed me). He then opened his computer and looked it up. He went to the Wikipedia and skimmed it a bit, coming to the conclusion that it is associated with Ukrainian nationalism, with far right connotations, and neo-Nazis. He knows I’m planning on writing my history paper about the genocide in the Donbas and he thought maybe this interrogation was related. He went on to explain that because of the famine many Ukrainians had their nationalism fuelled and sided with the Nazis. I tried to explain away my motivations as just curiosity because I am not about to put a target on my back with the school.
This all happened on Wednesday, today I went back and asked Tovarish Tomato’s question.
When I entered his office I cut right to the case saying that my question had nothing to do with class and it was about the poster display and the symbol used in some of the posters. I said that it was really bothering me and I would appreciate a historian’s perspective because I’m having a hard time. I then asked “do you think it is appropriate and responsible to showcase an artist that utilizes neo-Nazi imagery in his works in the university.” I know that wasn’t Tovarish Tomato’s question word for word but I think we all know I have to rephrase things for my own safety.
He then said that he isn’t sure and that he would need to know more about what that OUN flag means to the people who put up the posters. If it means fascism then it’s bad to display, but if the flag means Ukrainian freedom from Russian oppression then it’s fine. He then said that symbols change meaning and this one could very well mean something else so we have to keep that in mind (reclamation and all that). If it was the swastika or the confederate flag then it would be an actual issue. He then asked if I had a problem with this display, and I really tried to play it off, saying I didn’t care anymore, but I don’t think he believed me one bit because he pushed on it and I just told him that I just have to deal with whatever the university approves of whether I like it or not.
He then explained that he was not a historian on Ukraine so he isn’t the best authority on this subject, I then brought up Ivan Katchanovski as a source for information if I wanted to know more. He didn’t know who he was so I told him again and I guess he’s going to look into him more. He then told me about Timothy Snyder, an American historian who apparently knows a lot about Ukraine, he then said I might not like him. I asked if he’s American, he said yes, I then said “yeah I might have issues with him.” As a little dig because American scholars can be the absolute worst. So with us exchanging scholars our chat ended and I went to the Library to study.
And what do you know? The display is still there….