this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Zelensky offers to give up something he's about to lose anyways in order to gain something that isn't going to happen.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago

I think he’s trying to gain not dying of sudden lead poisoning.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

Brave and powerful 😭

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago

The man can get his country into NATO, I’d say he has earned his retirement.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Is NATO membership still a valid goal to pursue?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The whole war was started because the Russians consider Ukraine in nato to be their red line, and the war was lost by Ukraine because the NATO leadership never seriously considered putting Ukraine in NATO if that meant direct war with Russia.

So no, it isn't a realistic goal at all. The war ends only when either

  1. The Ukrainian state collapses
  2. A deal is made in which Ukraine does not join NATO
  3. Ukraine pushes back Russian forces so much that they collapse the Russian government.

Scenario 2 seems to be the most likely outcome.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not an expert, but have read a decent amount on this. Others may have more and better info.

With that said, even if an Article 5 invocation won't bring the US into your fight, it provides a hefty infrastructure of value to countries in it. From basing, to logistics, to intelligence, to aid, it is valuable. Now the politics of it are complicated and the US can hinder some of that value, but it still means that in Europe if Russia provides an Article 5 reason, other countries in NATO can choose to help in various forms. That's not nothing. It's also faster and less arduous then negotiating individual defense treaties with neighbors and others.

So yes, overall probably still worth it. Even if just as an entree into other alliances.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

i think the thread starter question is more about if nato is even about to continue existing

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This is standard dictator behavior, giving up power for the benefit of their people.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Funny time to do it, once he's lost the war, had Ukrainians kidnapped straight onto the frontlines, and once negotiations are taking place without him (which might end with him in front of a jury). Not to mention member states have already taken it off the table which means "I'm not going at all". Might as well have said his only demand is to marry the tooth fairy.

But sure, y'all just keep fetishizing yet another western puppet who called off elections but did it "for the right reasons."

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I think you're being downvoted because you're missing the /s

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They're getting downvoted because the average Lemmy user is terminally incapable of reading the room.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

To be fair, sarcasm doesn't really convey through text

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

This has been known since the dawn of the internet

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago
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