this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2024
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Palestine

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A community for everything related to Palestine and the occupation currently underway by the occupying force known as Israel.

Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Existence is resistance for Palestinians.

Please refer to Israel as Occupied Palestine, or occupied territories. The IDF is a fascist and ethnonationalist occupying force. Israelis are settlers. We understand however that the imperial narrative (which tries to legitimise Israel) is internalised in the imperial core and slip-ups are naturally expected.

We always take the sides of Palestine and Palestinians and are unapologetic about it. Israel is an occupying power whose "defence force"'s (note the contradiction) sole purpose for existing is to push Palestinians out so they can resettle their rightful land. If you have anything positive to say about Israel we do not care.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Last time I read in a democracy people shouldn't be afraid of criticizing the government.

So if Israel don't get that, it's not a democracy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Because Israel cynically uses charges of antisemitism against its critics even when it doesn't apply. If an org with a lot of sway like the ADL calls you an antisemite, until recently that would be a deathblow to your public persona - unless you're like Mel Gibson or something. I say "until recently" because while big orgs might still operate that way I think the ongoing genocide in Gaza has swayed public opinion such that that doesn't really apply as much any more.

Add to that the fact that actual antisemites will cynically use criticism of Israel in order to sneak their talking points into pro-Palestinian advocacy. Those who criticize Israel and who consider themselves leftist really should be careful what they say and who they agree with because there's a small but very important difference between saying "AIPAC influences congresspeople to be pro Israeli apartheid/genocide" and "AIPAC controls the United States Government".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Few beings want somebody to identify them as antisemitic; the Axis was antisemitic as well, and that can not only create guilt by association but also discredit the accused in the eyes of many.

Personally, I think that many capitalists are highly protective of the Zionist project because it keeps Jews separate from the rest of the world, which was Zionism’s original goal anyway. Capitalist gentiles simply pretend that it’s a humanistic or altruistic endeavour because that is easier to sell to the masses than explicit segregation.

But really, capitalist gentiles don’t want thousands of Jews and any potential competitors among them suddenly seeking refuge in their domains, using their public resources. They want Jews to stay under an ethnonationalist and bellicist régime, where it’s dangerous.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

::: spoiler rant On the other side, the extreme Islamophobia used against Palestinians is wild, visible even in so called leftist spaces, simply get any "criticism of Islam" from a communist prespective and replace "Islam" with "Judaism" and see how much of a "product of your time" you sound like,"Jihadist group that throws gays off of buildings and stone women" is simply today's version of whatever the anti-semites were spouting about Jews eating babies, MOTHERFUCKER if I have to explain to another person that "No sweaty, Hamas doesn't enforce Jizya on non-muslims in Gaza" I'll snap. and whenever an anti semitic attack happens in Europe or North America they always don't even think twice "Oh the muslims must be the culprit deport" Like FUCK YOU, you crakkker humanoids put 6 million jews into literal ovens and WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE JEW HATERS? This fucking shit pisses me off, 30k Gazans have been genocided infront of us and these heartless so called "nuissance havers" are worried about anti semitism rising? if anything this war has made every single person I know way less anti semitic, You know why? because at every speech we're reminded that the "Bani Sahyoun" are Nazis and fascists and that the fight is with the zionist state and not with the Jews.

sacred cow

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

possible misunderstanding of the meme 🫠

"sacred cow" is based on Hinduism, not Judaism

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What I'm referencingAccording to Exodus, they “gathered around Aaron and said to him: 'Come, make gods for us, who shall go before us'” (Exodus 32:1). Rather than remaining steadfast in his faith, Aaron gave in. He ordered the people to collect all the gold in their possession, and used it to create a golden calf for worship.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

oh, I seemisunderstanding resolved !!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

The government of Israel has done a great job at conflating themselves and Judaism as a whole, mostly due to the fact that they shut down any criticism of their regime as anti-semitic. Uninformed Jews across the world then parrot this take, offering near unconditional support of the regime regardless of Israel's actual government policies or stances. These uninformed Jews can create a substantial voting block that everyone is afraid of pissing off, on top of the general societal pressure to not be antisemitic, which results in the lack of criticism.

I mean hell, think about it this way. Israel has been fucking over the Palestinians for decades, their illegal land grabs were at a fevered pitch prior to Hamas' October attack. Not a single soul ever dared report on it. Netanyahu has been a full out fascist for a decade at least, but have you seen criticism of the regime? Everyone's too scared of being called antisemitic by a regime that should not represent all Jews.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM

https://invidious.private.coffee/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM

As younger genocide joe says, It serves the interests as an outpost for western imperialism.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I've heard this my whole life. Renditions of "they're our best friend in the region"

Ok, so, answer me this

How many troops have they deployed with us to Iraq and Afghanistan? How many IDF were lost in those two other countries?

How many American soldiers are stationed in Israel? What base and which branches are based there?

Because to my (limited) knowledge the answers are none, none, none and none.

Some friend.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You really think "boots on the ground" military action is the only way a nation supports or benefits another?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not at all.

Let's say my vehicle fucks up on the freeway and I'm broken down in another state.

I have a friend who would be considered local there, am I wrong to assume I can impose on him? Is me in a time of need too much for a friendship to handle?

Well I would say that that's not a friendship then, if it were.

Same thing with Israel and boots on the ground.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I have no idea what that means. Can you explain your position using actual, real world examples of Israel and the US's actions instead of unrelated hypotheticals?

I'm just not sure what you mean here or what angle you're coming at this from. I want to avoid talking past each other if possible.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I don't understand how you don't understand those questions. Maybe try answering the questions asked before we lay out more words that we can get hung up on (the limits of language and all)

This is clear, succinct 4th grade English.

What I'm saying, is if Israel is such a good "friend" to America, why do we not see Israel present in any part of the 2000-2024 photo album? I mean, the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, Italy, Germany, France...theyve all sent troops towards Americas world policing.

Why hasn't our good friend? In my circles, helping friends with their goals, is FUNDAMENTAL to friendship. So I'm questioning if Israel is a friend in anything OTHER than word.

And the UN. Israel votes with the US 99% of the time, I suppose. If the cost of that is the US accepting Zionist genocide than the cost of that friendship is too expensive, in my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Israel doesn't need to participate in every single military adventure to be America's ally. I mean, this is the country which has received more than 150 billion dollars in American military aid. More than any other country ever. What do you think they get this money for?

As for how Israel helps American interests in the region

  1. Israel keeps the region divided, geophraphically and politically. This is essential for Americans to be able to extract cheap plentiful oil.
  2. Israel allows America to project military force in the region. Contrary to your claims, Israel does allow American bases.
  3. Israel acts as a counterweight to Russian and Chinese influence in the region.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Israel helped with Stuxnet. I recalled that earlier today. So there's that and the lockstep UN vote.

The hostility that comes from questioning Israel is going to push impressionable people to the far right. We've already seen this kind of shit with Bannon and Trump, y'all apologists need to come at people who are earnestly asking better, or you're simply engineering the next Holocaust.

I'm not threatening, don't be daft. The fastest way to make more terrorists is to kill their family....fucking DUH.

I'm anti-genocide, not anti-israel, UNLESS Israel decides that its firmly PRO-genocide. Then the oppressed becomes the oppressors and y'all forgotten every meaningful lesson to be learned and just shut down all higher reasoning beyond might makes right.

Ffs, what are y'all doing? Do you not see what I'm saying? Have you become blind to zeitgeist? When you're a hammer, all you see are nails, and frankly boss, ya need to see more. A question is a question not a condemnation. I'll conclude an opinion at the end of discourse, thank you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

This is clear, succinct 4th grade English.

I'd say that's smuglord-grade english.

What I'm saying, is if Israel is such a good "friend" to America, why do we not see Israel present in any part of the 2000-2024 photo album?

We? Maybe you. The zionist colonial project has always been openly hostile to its non-western-aligned neighbours since it's inception, and still is. It also has cooperated with ISIS (alongside the US) to the detriment of the rest of West Asia/Africa. Who cares if they're not in NATO. It's not a necessary condition for US vassals to send troops wherever US directly does war (for example, Japan and ROK).

Lastly, please don't use metaphors. The reply you got was basically about that. Metaphors have no place when describing the real world. They obscure meaning.

I won't discuss further.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Correct, in my part of the world smuglord ends at 5th grade. I don't think I've heard the term since either.

Higher reasoning is almost done entirely in metaphor and comparison. If you have done any of that, you would know that. Language fails us pretty quickly in fact. We do what we can with what we got. It is what it is. If that's not good enough for you, there's the void for you to despairingly yell into. Don't take too long tho, I got some shit I need to scream into that void too.

Did referencing Nietzsche there go to far?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I am not the preson you are replying to, I do have one comment I want to bring up about the use of Metaphors, I would agree that in the instance above they only where used to obfuscate the meaning, and can often be used to no real benifit, they can and do sometimes have real power in helping people understand

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

That was more my point. I was trying to give this person the benefit of the doubt and just tell me their actual position directly in plain english, but like any true debatebro, they don't actually hold a position apart from contrarianism and smugness.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Because Israel has done an incredible job of positioning every possible criticism of Israel as anti-semitism, and the only thing we are taught as a culture from the lessons of WWII is that anti-semitism can be one of the most horrific evils of the world.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Ironically, Isreal is using Judaism, Jewishness, and all Jewish people as human shields

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Fascism isnt even good for the "Us" that is supposed to be supreme