this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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A decision to negotiate over the heads of the Ukrainians would reveal just how Trump sees Ukraine and Europe.

Archived version: https://archive.is/newest/https://theconversation.com/ukraine-isnt-invited-to-its-own-peace-talks-history-is-full-of-such-examples-and-the-results-are-devastating-250049


Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

This isn't a peace deal, this is a conspiracy. Ukraine has zero obligation to accept any of this. However they will have to start making considerations about a Polish Underground state type of ordeal. This fighting is not going to stop for a decade more. The region is going to resemble fucking Afghanistan.

. Russia has no intention of stopping and they might as well tell MAGA to go fuck themselves, and Europe better get ready to join.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Time for Germany to build nuclear weapon stockpiles. Fuck this shit with the USA and Russia. Their Saudi Arabia meeting was another 2018 Helsinki shitshow.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

They are not in charge, the US/NATO is. They are merely only doing the fighting and dying.

As it was written decades ago by what people call a philanthropist for some reason:

the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Your claim that Ukrainians are merely "doing the fighting and dying" under US and NATO direction, citing George Soros's 1993 essay, is both a misinterpretation and a profound insult to the bravery and autonomy of the Ukrainian people.

In the essay, Soros discussed the potential for integrating Eastern European manpower with NATO's technical capabilities to enhance collective security. This proposal aimed to create a more balanced and cooperative defense structure in the post-Cold War era, not to relegate Eastern Europeans to the role of expendable forces. Soros emphasized the importance of political and economic collaboration to support emerging democracies, with military considerations being just one facet of a comprehensive strategy.

Since Russia's unprovoked invasion in February 2022, Ukraine has demonstrated remarkable resilience and independence in defending its sovereignty. The Ukrainian government and armed forces have made strategic decisions, leading successful counteroffensives and reclaiming occupied territories. Their determination has not only defied global expectations but has also galvanized international support.

Your remarks diminish the profound sacrifices made by Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. The resilience of Ukrainians is evident not only on the battlefield but also in their daily lives. Civilians have engaged in acts of defiance, from producing essential military supplies to maintaining cultural institutions under siege. To reduce their struggle to mere pawns in a geopolitical game is an affront to their courage and agency.

It is imperative to approach discussions about such critical matters with a well-informed perspective. Recognizing the agency and bravery of the Ukrainian people is not only a matter of accuracy but also of respect. Mischaracterizations not only distort the truth but also unjustly belittle the experiences of those enduring the hardships of war.

All those who defend a free world should acknowledge the undeniable evidence of Ukraine's sovereign efforts and the extraordinary bravery of its people. Let us honor their sacrifices by portraying their struggle with the dignity and respect it unequivocally deserves.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

both can be true, in the microcosm of the war of course regular Ukrainians have agency but on the grand scheme they were useful idiots for Washington to reduce Russia military capabilities, which ended up failing. Also very lucrative for weapon, energy and financial sectors for the US, not so much for europe or ukraine.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (11 children)

They are very much in charge. They are the ones on the front lines, they don't have to stop fighting just because Trump says something.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

well they're gonna have to fight with knives and rocks since it is the US that provides their weapons

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