this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2025
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In three weeks, Donald Trump has imploded whatever positive image the United States might have had internationally.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 days ago (14 children)

In just over three weeks, Donald Trump has been able to redefine the United States’ position in the world from a global power to an international outcast.

This is exactly what people uttering "Make America Great Again" were asking for when they chose Trump to be the figurehead. None should be surprised.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 5 days ago (32 children)

I feel like saying it's normal for empires to fall due to external causes is not accurate? It's usually the exception. Maybe the external factor is the final kick, knocking over a rotting house of cards, but the cause is almost always division, internal conflict, or unsustainable growth. An empire is much more likely to collapse under its own weight than it is to have Alexander the Great kick its teeth in. The Ottoman Empire was called "The Sick Man of Europe" for a reason.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 days ago (3 children)

It's absolutely not. It's their very internal policies that force them into destroying themselves. They start believing their own propaganda. For both Rome and Constantinople it was wasting huge amounts of it's power on fighting Persia and trying to extend its borders in ways that outran it's logistics capacity. For the Ottomans it was the rise of nationalism and their ham fisted attempts to combat it. For the modern Western imperialists it was the base fact that direct colonial rule was always a monetary drain for the state and only made businesses money. Making these stupid decisions was because each empire had created a web of political commitments and internal propaganda that was unsustainable.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The Roman Empire took centuries to eventually collapse and a lot of it was corruption, hyperinflation, and complacency. It's happening here but at a much quicker rate.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Maybe the external factor is the final kick, knocking over a rotting house of cards, but the cause is almost always division, internal conflict, or unsustainable growth.

Rome was a place where power consolidated, but the various eras might as well have been different empires.

The system collapsed, dissolved, reconstituted, and expanded several times during the 1400 years it existed.

Same with China. 5000 years of history emerging from Beijing, but each dynasty was distinct.

Even the US has reinvented itself several times over by now. Antebellum America might as well have been a different country. New Deal America was radically different from it's Coolidge Era predecessor. Reagan's America became it's own thing in turn. Trumpian America is a new thing, not an end point.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The US falling apart would implicate that it was once whole, which it never was. It is just reaping the harsh fruits of half a century of aggressive 2 party campaigning.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (2 children)

All due to Ordinal voting. First Past the Post is the simplest Ordinal system, and completely broken if you have more than two candidates.

The only solution is a Cardinal voting system. Cardinal systems can handle two or twenty candidates without issues. Approval or STAR are the best options.

The sad part is, in 1780, First Past the Post was the only system available. It had to be adopted before mathematicians could look at it and say, hey shits broken.

The first was Condorcet. A French Mathematician who noticed the first problem with Plurality in the 1780s. But if you know your history, you'll know that being a French Nobleman in the 1780s was not the healthiest thing to be, regardless of how fucking based you were.

As an aside here, Condorcet was fucking based. He was antislavery, and argued for full suffrage for both women and the slaves that he wanted to free. He argued for universal education for all, and thought it would solve so many problems.

Anyway the next guy who saw the problem with Plurality was another French Mathematician and political scientist named Durverger. He proved that First Past the Post voting will always result in two party dominance. And he proved this in the 1950s. So not much to be done about it.

The next guy to put his name to voting science was Kenneth Arrow, an American who in the 1970s, showed that all Ordinal voting systems were flawed.

But again, the data came in far too late to easily fix things.

So here we are. The saying goes, the best time to plant a tree was 20 year ago, the next best time is now. So call your local representative and ask them to sponsor a switch of voting system to Approval or STAR.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (4 children)

No technical system of voting resolved the problem of monopolized media and a population stuffed full of nationalist propaganda.

Implement Cardinal voting at the Vatican and you'll still end up with a Catholic Pope

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Fun fact, the Vatican did use Cardinal voting (Approval) for a few centuries, until some rich assholes took over.

But aside from that, your comment is useless.

The reason why the media can control the narrative is because of the voting system. See, it's super easy to control two sides. Two teams.

But if you have a dozen teams, it's much harder to control the narrative. And with a dozen teams, some of them will be on our side and will break up the media monopoly. Hell, we had Trust busters under or current system, we can have them again.

But I guess defeatism is comfortable for certain people. But it doesn't get anything done, so fuck that shit.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The reason why the media can control the narrative is because of the voting system.

The media exists independent of the electoral system.

you have a dozen teams, it’s much harder to control the narrative.

ESPN would argue otherwise.

defeatism is comfortable for certain people

It's only defeatism when you assume Cardinal voting is the only viable solution.

Obviously, that's not the case.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 5 days ago (3 children)

If there was anything the US was good at, it would be marketing. Creating the image that it's the greatest nation on earth, influencing mainstream media to tell their version of the story, keeping up appearances of a strong nation.

The moment these smoke clears and the mirrors break, that is when we see the real US. I think we have Trump to thank to show it to us.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Once, the US was actualy very food at funding innovation. The shit that Bell Labs alone discovered are things that shape the world today. But in the nature of US capatialism, if discovery can't turn I to profit, why bother? It's easier to market 2nd or 3rd place as 1st, then to actually be the 1st, especially if the Chinese are constantly breathing down you neck.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Unfortunately they believe their own bullshit

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

Well, you have to drink the kool-aid because there's lead in the tap water.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago

The education system has one goal: teach people critical thinking. In the US they deliberately did the opposite, that's why there's so many idiots. That and the fact that mass media is amazing at spewing propaganda

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

In three weeks, Donald Trump has imploded whatever positive image the United States might have had internationally.

If you were born in the last three weeks it may seem that way, but Joe Biden did the US' reputation abroad no favors, nor did Trump 1. Obama is less bad than those on either side of him, but his admin at best still represents stagnation, as he failed to address Bush's crimes and added to them in places like Libya. And before him was the guy who really got the ball rolling downhill after the high point that was the Clinton administration, Bush Jr.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Whatever his effect was, Obama was perceived exceptionally well. They basically have him a Nobel for just getting elected.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Just to give you the perspective from Germany: Reagan is viewed as an idiot, everybody forgot about Bush Senior, people kind of loved Clinton, viewed GWB as an idiot and warmonger, Obama is seen as a great guy and Binden was also not viewed negatively by most people. Trump, however, is seen as the dangerous clown that he is.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Obama is less bad than those on either side of him, but his admin at best still represents stagnation, as he failed to address Bush's crimes

Just a reminder that it's a lot faster, easier and cheaper to break things than it is to build or repair them. A "bull in a China shop" like Trump can do a lot of damage in a few seconds, but it takes years to repair.

Bush had 8 years to cause the damage he caused, it's not reasonable to expect the next administration to fix all that in the same amount of time, no matter how well intentioned and capable that president is.

Same with Trump1-> Biden.

And then you add in obstructionists in congress and senate slowing the process of repair.

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