this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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I have backups on a backup hard drive and also synced to B2, but I am thinking about backing up to some format to put in the cupboard.

The issue I see is that if I don't have a catastrophic failure and instead just accidentally delete some files one day while organising and don't realise, at some point the oldest backup state is removed and the files are gone.

The other thing is if I get hit by a bus and no one can work out how to decrypt a backup or whatever.

So I'm thinking of a plain old unencrypted copy of photos etc that anyone could find and use. Bonus points if I can just do a new CD or whatever each year with additions.

I have about 700GB of photos and videos which is the main content I'm concerned about. Do people use DVDs for this or is there something bigger? I am adding 60GB or more each year, would be nice to do one annual addition or something like that.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (6 children)

For local backups it depends on what you want to have:

  • The cheapest option is a usb or thumb drive. But you have to regularly plug it in and copy your backup on it.
  • The lazy option is to buy a NAS and configure a backup job that regularly creates a backup. Versioned, incremental, differentials and full backups are possible as is WORM to add a bit of extra security. You can configure a NAS to only turn on specified times, do a backup and then turn off again. This will increase protection against encrypting malware. WORM also helps in this case.
    Or just let it run 24/7, create backups every hour and install extra services on it like AI powered image analysis to identify people and objects and let it automatically tag your photos. Cool stuff! Check out QNAP and Synology or build a NAS yourself.
    A NAS can also be configured to present its content in a LAN by itself. Any computer will automatically connect to it if the access isn't secured by user/password or certificate.

I recommend buying a NAS.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Thinking about this, the only ancient information we are still able to access is painted or edged on stone or clay. How about some sort huge wall with thousands of QRcode like engravings?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Haha like

spoilers for the three body problem seriesat the the end of the third three body problem book where they need to write something that will last for millions of years so they carve a message in huge letters into the rock

But I'm a millennial so if you think I own a huge amount of land you would be wrong 😛

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Just a hdd in usb caddy? IMHO good enough for 4 tier backup.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yes this seems to be the general theme. Main issue is sorting out a file system. I can use a self-repairing one, to recover from long term storage issues, but then it likely won't work in Windows which it may need to if I want a layman to be able to access it. So still some refinement of the plan but it's coming together.

I've also decided to print some physical photos, aiming for 100 per year, and will put everything in a container together. The physical photos are for in case the container is lost for decades and the drives die, then there will at least be something.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I'm thinking of using a HDD and keeping it at work, which is climate controlled. I'd bring it back every few months to sync the latest.

Since it's constantly being used, I'm pretty confident it'll be usable as a backup if my NAS fails, so it only needs to be "shelf stable" for a few months at a time. If you're retired or something, a safe deposit box at your local bank should do the trick.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

I have a cloud backup, so this isn't about a critical loss of data. It's about an accessible copy that isn't encrypted and a layman could get the data off.

If my house burns down and I lose the copy, I can restore the data from the cloud backup (so long as I'm not in the house when it burns).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If it's powered off, you'll have no idea when it dies. And they do die just sitting there.

I've actually had more failures of drives sitting around than ones running constantly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

But I will because it won't work the next time I take it home to sync. The chance that it'll fail during the few months between a sync and an emergency is incredibly low.

I wouldn't leave it on a shelf for years, just a few months at a time (approximately quarterly).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

After reading the previous discussion I think that you should get more than single drive to store cold backups. That way you can at least spread out the risk of single drive failing. 2TB spinning drives are pretty cheap today and if you have, for example, 4 of them, you can buy one now, write your backups to it and in 6 months buy another, write data on that and so on.

This way you'll have drives with year or two difference on purchase date, so it's pretty unlikely all of them fail at once and a single drive gets powered on and checked every other year or so. My personal experience is that spinning drives are pretty stable on the shelf, but I wouldn't rely on them for decades. And of course even with multiple drives you'll still want to replace them every 3-5 years each. Plus with multiple drives, if I were to build setup like that, I'd set up some sort of scripts or other solution where I can just plug the thing in and doubleclick an icon on desktop to refresh the data and maybe get a notification automatically that the drive you're using should be replaced.

And for actual, long term storage, printouts are the way to go. At least in here you can get books made out of photo paper with your pictures. That's one media which is actually stable over long period and using them doesn't require a lot of technical knowledge nor hardware. But I'd still keep digital copies around, as the printouts aren't resistant to things like house fire or water damage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah I am thinking of getting a couple of drives and cloning across both. Update both at the same time. I didn't think of getting two drives at different times but that makes sense, thanks for the suggestion!

I am thinking printouts is a good idea too. I might get a big container, and keep a couple of mirrored drives as well as say 100 photos from each year. Every year I update the drives with additions and then print 100 photos from the previous year to add to the collection.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I personally prefer printed out books of our photos. We are missing quite a few years due to life getting in the way, but the end goal is to have actual books of photos with titles like 'Our family in 2018' and 'Sports of our first born at 2022'. In europe we have a company called 'ifolor' where you can design and order printouts of your photos. They're not really cheap, but the quality is pretty damn good. And their offerings go to pretty decent sized photo albums, up to A3 size and 180 pages (which is over 200€). So, not cheap, but at least so far their quality has been worth the money.

And they have cheaper options too, but personally I think it's worth the money to get the best quality you can for printouts. And even the smallest and cheapest option is far superior over not having anything at all due to hardware failure or whatever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I've done some photo books in the past. A lot of work though, I prefer the idea of printed photos since it's less work. Plus if they are the only surviving photos, then it's nice to have them in an easily scannable format.

I came across this container (that's NZD - about $10 USD), where each of the smaller containers holds 100 photos. Seems like it could be a good option, one container per year with 100 photos in each. 12 years per box. Get say 6 of them to cover the rest of my life (one could probably cover my life to date, a lot less photos before I had kids), put in a larger container that also holds a couple of (mirrored) hard drives. One big time capsule.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

For photos? Archival prints. As a bonus, you also get a cool album to reminisce later in life.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I don't want to sort through the 50k photos, and can't print videos. I'm hoping in 10 or 20 years I'll be able to feed it into AI to spit out all the best ones, then I'll consider it.

We do have photos printed, but only a very small percentage of the total.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

This was a recent point of discussion on the 2.5 Admins podcast (https://2.5admins.com/2-5-admins-228/). Some good discussion on there.

My own thought is the best way to handle your family-member-finding-your-old-photos problem is the analog way: make some prints. It’s absolutely idiot proof, the methodology of keeping paper goods is well understood, and the technology is platform independent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah I really want a digital copy, but for redundancy physical photos sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should do the hard drive rotation thing mentioned in other comments, but each year when I'm updating I could print 100 photos as well. Have a suitcase or container where I keep the hard drives and the physical photos. Then I'd have a decent chance of all photos making it in digital form, plus a bunch of photos just in case the hard drives fail. The hardest part will be going back through the previous years finding an printing 100 photos from each year, but after that I don't have to get through too many each year.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Having actual prints has always been the consensus among activists. No digital media lasts as long. The media may persist but the technology to read them is long gone.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I usually use a dehydrator for ~3 days on my drives to make them shelf stable. So far I haven’t had any issues.

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