this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2025
71 points (90.8% liked)

Privacy

36153 readers
664 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

So, I was told to not use Signal, so all that is left is Matrix. And I am not techy enough to have my own server and neither are my relatives, so Matrix.org is the only option

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

why did they told you not to use signal

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Matrix.org is centralized like Signal (you can say Matrix is not centralized on paper, but in practice this isn’t remotely true). Both are stockpiling metadata in the West… what’s worse is Matrix’s eventual consistency model means syncing metadata to all servers is a by-design requirement (& also why all servers & clients are slow). There are options like Snikket to take all the hard parts of self-hosting out of the equation, but finding someone you can trust to host a server might be worthwhile. I would be wary of anything centralized.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Matrix/Element is pretty private, but not wide spreaded. For the use with friends and Family is more realisticto use Signal or any other decentralized Chat.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago

Private against who?

Privacy communities need to really drill in the idea of threat models instead of pretending privacy is some linear scale and the ultimate goal is to bury your phone and computer in a lead-lined concrete block underground. Privacy and security are meaningless concepts unless you know who your are protecting it from and what their capabilities might be. I don't need to hide from NSA Tailored Access Operations because I'm not trying to x the y of the USA. I do need to protect myself from basic scam attackers, copyright trolls and neo-nazi stalkers. And Matrix, along with certain basic opsec guidelines, does that and more for me.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

both are good, even Signal. For private conversations, you only need to avoid Telegram and other obvious ones

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What are the biggest threats in telegram? Corporations, widespread scams or individual ppl closer to me?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

telegram has a lot of illegal stuff on it. Plus the ceo has been caught and this way, the whole thing was compromised

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Okey, but I mean what are the threats to my privacy if I use telegram?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

your data can land at french police, who caught Pavel Durov. i only use telegram to track custom rom updates, for that it is fine. but don't use it for private conversations

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

That is a shame, but still not a big surprise. In comparison Apple has been sharing all kind of iPhone push notifications with the US government. I guess no other app will save your privacy from gvt. iPhone notifications to US gvt.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Matrix and Simplex is fine but I would recommend Signal for family and friends. Threema is also option but not user friendly for friends and family who wants easy user discovery than sharing userIDs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Matrix isn't more secure/private than Signal. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Signal has a centralized server, but has no access to the keys to decrypt any of the data flowing through them. Matrix chat rooms live on servers that would theoretically be able to access the data in the rooms, so you need to trust the server owners. Advantage is that multiple servers are involved so no one sever can kill your chat room. With Signal, the disadvantage is if you join a chat room, you can't see any past messages because those are encrypted with keys you don't have access to. Similarly if you move to a new device, that device won't have any of your past conversations because the new device doesn't have the keys for those messages. (though migration is now somewhat possible but done poorly IMHO).

So, they address different concerns. Is your concern keeping your conversations private, or keeping your conversations from being censored? Signal is more secure and private, but more centralized and easier or to fail. Matrix can be secure if you host your own server or explicitly trust the owners of all servers that house your chatrooms to keep them secure and to not sell their servers in the future. Matrix is more distributed, so more difficult to be censored or have your data lost by a single point of failure.

Is it "secure enough" depends on what your concerns are. If you host your own, then it's as secure as you are technically able to keep them secure yourself. Otherwise it depends on the server owner.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

If it's low privacy needs (ie you don't have a state threat model), Signal is completely fine. I use it to talk to my friends. I also use Matrix, though federated Matrix isn't the best for privacy either due to the amount of metadata that leaks through federation. But federated Matrix is also fine for the kinds of things you would use eg Discord or IRC for.

If you do have a state threat model, I personally think SimpleX is ideal for that, but it doesn't have as much of a userbase so you probably need people who care enough (eg people actively under threat) to switch to a new platform. Whereas most people I know are already on either Signal or Matrix, and I'm not having particularly sensitive conversations with them either so both work fine.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In signal, You can turn off phone number visibility and make it so that you are only searchable by username or qr code. Yes, it's centralized, but signal is a nonprofit project with generally good guiding ideals. I use matrix for some things and signal for everything else.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Yeah, but it is still just one account per number, so it would make managing alts annoying. Not only is the main client (as well as the major unofficial ones, haven't found one that doesn't do that) not support multiacc directly, forcing use of profiles or VMs, but you're also at risk of whoever rents the associated phone number after you deleting the account (that or you could pay a recurring fee just to retain the number, which is just wasteful).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Matrix is great, you can use another instance though.

https://servers.joinmatrix.org/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

you don't need to use matrix.org. there are several open homeservers, like chat.mozilla.org, but also there are people who host services for others to use. you may have a look at current lemmy hosts, and their other services if they have them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

AFAIK, chat.mozilla.org was set up on modular.im, now element.io, which if it still using the same host, is owned by Matrix.org. So even using a different host means Matrix.org might still have your metadata.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

I am really concerned about the dominance of the central instance on Matrix. It has visibility into pretty much every groupchat - if not in content because of encryption, then in all the metadata. I'd rather use another public homeserver.

load more comments
view more: next ›